View Poll Results: Which is your favo(u)rite?

Voters
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  • Tonal

    5 15.15%
  • Free atonal

    1 3.03%
  • 12-tone

    1 3.03%
  • I like tonal & free atonal equally

    1 3.03%
  • I like tonal & 12-tone equally

    2 6.06%
  • I like free atonal and 12-tone equally

    2 6.06%
  • I like them all equally

    19 57.58%
  • I like none of them

    2 6.06%
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Thread: Tonal vs. free atonal vs. 12-tone Schoenberg

  1. #1
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Default Tonal vs. free atonal vs. 12-tone Schoenberg

    Vote. Or else.......
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    I don't think most people can tell the difference unless you point it out to them.

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    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    For the purpose of this poll, is Debussy considered tonal or free atonal?

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    Senior Member Kjetil Heggelund's Avatar
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    or else...? What then??

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    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    For the purpose of this poll, is Debussy considered tonal or free atonal?
    None of these categories work very well with Debussy, but perhaps you could call something like Brouillards free atonal. A lot of Debussy is vaguely "tonal", as is "tonal" Schoenberg but vague in a different way.
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    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahlerian View Post
    I don't think most people can tell the difference unless you point it out to them.
    I know. I don't claim that I could necessarily tell a 12-tone work from a freely atonal work that I didn't know, however given that I do know which use the method and which don't, I have learned that I tend to prefer the ones that do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dim7 View Post
    I know. I don't claim that I could necessarily tell a 12-tone work from a freely atonal work that I didn't know, however given that I do know which use the method and which don't, I have learned that I tend to prefer the ones that do.
    Do you think this might be because of the prevalence of vocal works in the freely tonal period? I know you're not as fond of traditional singing technique, so pieces like the Hanging Gardens song cycle and Herzgewachse would be outside of your preferences.

    There are fewer extended instrumental works for the reason that the 12-tone technique facilitated the composition of works with larger, extended forms.

    At any rate, I don't mean to criticize you. I'm just interested in other people's takes on Schoenberg's music.
    Last edited by Mahlerian; Feb-06-2016 at 23:57.

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    Personally, I prefer Schoenberg's and Webern's atonal phase, so I selected that. I also voted for tonal, because there's nothing wrong with tonal music. The 12-tone stuff gets dicey with people like Roger Sessions and Jan Maegaard. I try to pay attention, but sometimes I get left in the dust.

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  13. #9
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahlerian View Post
    Do you think this might be because of the prevalence of vocal works in the freely tonal period? I know you're not as fond of traditional singing technique, so pieces like the Hanging Gardens song cycle and Herzgewachse would be outside of your preferences.

    There are fewer extended instrumental works for the reason that the 12-tone technique facilitated the composition of works with larger, extended forms.

    At any rate, I don't mean to criticize you. I'm just interested in other people's takes on Schoenberg's music.
    That's probably a part of it - however my favorite free atonal composition by Schoenberg is probably the last movement of SQ 2 with the soprano voice, and I haven't been very fond of any of the instrumental ones. I think I can hear more easily identifiable themes and structure in 12-tone pieces.
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    My favorite would be tonal.

  15. #11
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    I like tonal the best if it is extended to composers like Debussy and Bartok. If not then I like tonal and free atonal equally, but admit that some masterpieces have certainly been composed using 12 tone/serialism.

    As I re-read the question I find myself not quite sure if the poll question is in reference only to Schoenberg works, or the compositional methods in general.

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    I believe that I sometimes know the difference (or think I do ), mainly between 12-tone and the other two. With 12-tone, I can sometimes detect the repeating series and it's transformations... and it thrills me! There is something about that music that gives me goosebumps Sometimes the music of Elliott Carter, while not 12-tone, can trick me into thinking it is 12-tone.

    As for tonal and atonal: I wouldn't have a clue If it sounds a bit discordant (another quality I love in music), I'd call it atonal. If it sounds late Romantic, I'd probably call it atonal. Actually, I wouldn't, unless forced to choose in a poll here on TC, since I don't use those labels, knowing full well I couldn't accurately identify or even define them.

    So, what does this mean to me, as a listener? Those labels will not give me any kind of reliable clue about whether I will like or dislike a piece of music.
    Last edited by brotagonist; Feb-07-2016 at 00:57.

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    Senior Member arpeggio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    My favorite would be tonal.
    Why am I not surprised?
    It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. And I am a very ingenious fellow

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  19. #14
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc View Post
    I like tonal the best if it is extended to composers like Debussy and Bartok. If not then I like tonal and free atonal equally, but admit that some masterpieces have certainly been composed using 12 tone/serialism.

    As I re-read the question I find myself not quite sure if the poll question is in reference only to Schoenberg works, or the compositional methods in general.
    It was supposed to be about Schoenberg works.
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    Senior Member SeptimalTritone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dim7 View Post
    That's probably a part of it - however my favorite free atonal composition by Schoenberg is probably the last movement of SQ 2 with the soprano voice, and I haven't been very fond of any of the instrumental ones. I think I can hear more easily identifiable themes and structure in 12-tone pieces.
    You should check out piano pieces op 11 and 19, the Five Pieces for Orchestra, and the Serenade (only one vocal movement).

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