View Poll Results: Genius Handel Or Genius Beethoven ....

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  • I prefer Handel's original

    5 25.00%
  • I prefer Beethoven's arrangement

    3 15.00%
  • I like both. Pure and simple.

    4 20.00%
  • I dislike both

    5 25.00%
  • Undecided

    2 10.00%
  • Who cares

    1 5.00%
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Thread: Genius Handel Or Genius Beethoven ....

  1. #1
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    Default Genius Handel Or Genius Beethoven ....

    ... more specifically, Handel wrote a popular choral piece See, the conqu'ring hero comes! from his oratorio Judas Maccabaeus (1746). Then fifty years later in 1796 Beethoven was deeply inspired by Handel's music and arranged the same choral for cello and piano.

    I have both pieces below. Take a listen and vote which one you prefer, the original version by the genius Handel or the arrangement by the genius Beethoven.

    Handel's original starts at 1:26



    Beethoven's arrangement for cello and piano

    Last edited by ArtMusic; Feb-13-2016 at 10:44.

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  3. #2
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    I voted for the pure and simple one: I like both versions.

  4. #3
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    If I like a tune, the last thing I want is to hear it mangled by variation - so I don't like the Beethoven. As I'm not a fan of choral work either, I'm not keen on the Handel.

    So, neither 'genius' has written a 'genial' work to my ears.

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  6. #4
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    For those interested in cultured and informed listening of how one composer's original version inspires another, there are really a lot of examples just in the Handel-Beethoven oeuvre. But really the best example of the genius Handel inspiring other genius, in particular Mozart, the later arranged so many of Handel's oratorios. It really is worth reading the score of the original and then the arranged piece to see how the two minds work, most often the case, decades or even over a century apart. The timeless quality of creative genius minds remain the same. The listening sensibilities of cultured listeners grow.

  7. #5
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    Robert Redford and Michael Kitchen sing it to Meryl Streep in Out Of Africa. I like that version best.

    Oh, whoops, I forgot to say "genius" a bunch of times. (I know, I know..when there's a word that for a passing moment winds people up on TC I'm meant to milk that mad cow. Next time.)
    Last edited by SimonNZ; Feb-13-2016 at 11:12.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonNZ View Post
    Robert Redford and Michael Kitchen sing it to Meryl Streep in Out Of Africa. I like that version best.

    Oh, whoops, I forgot to say "genius" a bunch of times. (I know, I know..when there's a word that for a passing moment winds people up on TC I'm meant to milk that mad cow. Next time.)
    I can't find it on youtube. Can you please post? I assume you mean some actors sang the Handel tune in "Out of Africa" the movie?

  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    I can't find it on youtube. Can you please post? I assume you mean some actors sang the Handel tune in "Out of Africa" the movie?
    I don't think it's available on YT. You should rent the film (which has a great many other things to recommend it)

    edit: dammit...I forgot to say "genius" again.

    Sydney Pollack is a genius!
    Last edited by SimonNZ; Feb-13-2016 at 11:20.

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  12. #8
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    Undecided, nothing to add

  13. #9
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    It's reasonable to think that Beethoven wouldn't have written those variations if he hadn't been in Berlin performing for Friedrich Wilhelm II. So I proclaim the King to be a genius. Also the cellist Jean Pierre Duport, with whom Beethoven performed. And of course Judas Maccabeus was a genius too.

  14. #10
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    I like both:

    The Beethoven of the Diabelli Variations and Missa Solemnis.

    The Handel of Messiah, Jephtha, Giulio Cesare and Semele.
    Last edited by hpowders; Feb-13-2016 at 15:11.

  15. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    For those interested in cultured and informed listening...
    For the rest of you...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nereffid View Post
    It's reasonable to think that Beethoven wouldn't have written those variations if he hadn't been in Berlin performing for Friedrich Wilhelm II. So I proclaim the King to be a genius. Also the cellist Jean Pierre Duport, with whom Beethoven performed. And of course Judas Maccabeus was a genius too.
    Handel's ghost stands reading this post, looking a bit like this:

    MTE4MDAzNDEwNjgwODQxNzQy.jpg
    The Brain - is wider than the Sky

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  18. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Handel's ghost stands reading this post, looking a bit like this:

    MTE4MDAzNDEwNjgwODQxNzQy.jpg
    That is a portrait of Antonio Salieri.

  19. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArtMusic View Post
    That is a portrait of Antonio Salieri.
    I understand. He looked a bit like that, when Nereffid described everyone else but Handel as a genius...
    The Brain - is wider than the Sky

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  21. #15
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    I went with "dislike both". I don't really dislike either one, but I wouldn't want to hear them again soon. The basic theme does not appeal to me, whether it's in the totally repetitive original or the Beethoven arrangement.

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