View Poll Results: Which c minor concerto is the best?

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  • Mozart PC in C Minor

    31 60.78%
  • Beethoven PC in C minor

    8 15.69%
  • Equal

    12 23.53%
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Thread: Battle of the C Minor Piano Concertos

  1. #1
    Senior Member PlaySalieri's Avatar
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    Default Battle of the C Minor Piano Concertos

    When Beethoven heard Mozart's piano concerto in C minor he declared to friend "we shall never equal that" or words to that effect. He later penned one himself and its hard to believe he was not thinking of Mozart's c minor now and then as he composed.

    So make your choice - which is better? or are these two mighty c mnor concertos equals?

    and most important - reasons for your choice.

  2. #2
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    Mozart's Keyboard Concerto No. 24 in c minor is in a class by itself. It just may be Mozart's greatest solo Keyboard Concerto.
    The third movement is arguably Mozart's greatest theme and variations (8, on a c minor theme). The Third Keyboard Concerto by Beethoven is very fine, but the Mozart takes pride of place, IMO.
    Last edited by hpowders; Feb-16-2016 at 21:30.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
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    It took a long time for me to really appreciate that strangely subdued Mozart work, but eventually it happened. So: equal.

  5. #4
    Senior Member aleazk's Avatar
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    Mozart, without a doubt for me.

    Beethoven's PCs are nice... but a mere "nice" is not comparable with any of those Mozart mature PCs (which are, btw, my favorite Mozart). I prefer Beethoven in the Piano Sonatas (and not the bombastic ones, but some subtle jewels like the first two movements of the Op.109).

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
    Mozart's Keyboard Concerto No. 24 in c minor is in a class by itself. It just may be Mozart's greatest solo Keyboard Concerto.
    The third movement is arguably Mozart's greatest theme and variations (8, on a c minor theme). The Third Keyboard Concerto by Beethoven is very fine, but the Mozart takes pride of place, IMO.
    I agree with this assessment. While Beethovn's effort is fine, I think he possibly wrote it as a tribute to Mozat's work but he doesn't equal the earlier piece. I feel that it was in the Fourth Piano Concerto that Beethoven went out on his own path in this form.
    Last edited by Scififan; Feb-16-2016 at 21:43.

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  9. #6
    Senior Member DiesIraeCX's Avatar
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    We must have different definitions of "bombastic". And"nice", for that matter, because Beethoven's 4th piano concerto in G major is a whole lot better than "nice". To each his own.



    I voted for Beethoven's, by the slimmest of margins.
    "No composer has been more innovative than Beethoven, he radically changed the nature and character of the music composed in the two centuries that followed his earliest works" - Charles Rosen ("The Classical Style")

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  11. #7
    Senior Member DiesIraeCX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scififan View Post
    I agree with this assessment. While Beethovn's effort is fine, I think he wrote it is a tribute to Mozat's work but doesn't equal the earlier piece. I feel that it was in the Fourth Piano Concerto that Beethoven went out on his own path in this form.
    I wholeheartedly agree, especially that middle movement that sounds as if it could have been written in the 20th century. Then again, he wrote quite a bit of music like that, but that movement stands out even among his most forward-looking pieces.
    Last edited by DiesIraeCX; Feb-16-2016 at 21:42.
    "No composer has been more innovative than Beethoven, he radically changed the nature and character of the music composed in the two centuries that followed his earliest works" - Charles Rosen ("The Classical Style")

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  13. #8
    Senior Member BillT's Avatar
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    Beethoven, because everything Beethoven wrote is better than anything Mozart wrote.

    - Bill

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    Senior Member PlaySalieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillT View Post
    Beethoven, because everything Beethoven wrote is better than anything Mozart wrote.

    - Bill
    That keeps it simple.

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    Senior Member DiesIraeCX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillT View Post
    Beethoven, because everything Beethoven wrote is better than anything Mozart wrote.

    - Bill
    Not true.

    I wouldn't place Beethoven's 1st symphony in the same category as the Prague or the 40th or 41st, I wouldn't place his 1st and 2nd piano concertos near Mozart's middle to mature piano concertos, the list goes on and on and on...

    Your statement doesn't hold water.
    Last edited by DiesIraeCX; Feb-16-2016 at 21:46.
    "No composer has been more innovative than Beethoven, he radically changed the nature and character of the music composed in the two centuries that followed his earliest works" - Charles Rosen ("The Classical Style")

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  19. #11
    Senior Member clavichorder's Avatar
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    Beethoven was not a Piano Concerto peer with Mozart until he penned the 4th and then the 5th which are phenomenal and up there with the best of Mozart's in their own way.
    Last edited by clavichorder; Feb-16-2016 at 21:48.

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  21. #12
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    There was certainly enthusiasm for LvB's 3rd Piano Concerto when it came out, and it was directly compared with those of Mozart:

    "This concerto is among the most important works published by this genial master in recent years. In certain aspects it may even excel above all others. In none of his latest works does the reviewer find so many beautiful and noble ideas, such a thorough execution that does not tend to the bombastic or contrived, such a firm character without excesses, or such unity. Wherever it can be performed well, it will have the greatest and most beautiful effect. Even in Leipzig, where one is used to hearing the greater Mozart concertos performed well and where one views them with justifiable preference, this will be and has already been the case."

    "...with respect to its effect on the mind and its impact, this concerto is one of the most excellent among all that have ever been written..."
    Last edited by KenOC; Feb-16-2016 at 22:07.


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  23. #13
    Senior Member PlaySalieri's Avatar
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    I used to have a CD set of famous pcs and solo p/f - but each track just gave maybe 2 minutes of each piece. when it came around to beethoven pc 3 - the intro played out and the excerpt ended just before the piano entry. what is the point of having that on a famous piano works cd I thought. but anyway the intro to beet pc3 must be the longest before solo entry? Brahms pc1 similar in that respect.

  24. #14
    Senior Member joen_cph's Avatar
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    The longest orchestral entry before the piano in a concerto, I believe, must be Gubaidulina┬┤s Introitus Concerto - 5+ minutes, in a work lasting roughly 24 mins or so.

  25. #15
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    I find it impossible to choose between these 2 concertos. Fwiw: I happen to believe that it was the Beethoven 3rd that marked a change in the sophistication and depth of his piano concertos.
    Last edited by DaveM; Feb-16-2016 at 23:13.

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