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Thread: The Bach Cantatas thread

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegendesLicht View Post
    The Bach cantatas are my second favorite collection of works of a single genre (after Wagner operas). The only recording of them I have is the one made by Karl Richter and the Münchener Bach-Orchester. Does anybody else have it? I am not sure I even need any other ones so far, because this one is so good, especially since the bass parts are sung by my favorite Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. I listen to a few of the cantatas every once in a while. As for my favorites - I keep discovering ones that I really like after repeated listening. The last one is BWV158 "Der Friede sei mit dir". Dietrich singing "Der Friede sei mit dir, mit dir..." sounds so very, well, peaceful.
    I have a few of the Richter Bach Cantata recordings plus the B minor Mass. They are terrific performances even though the HIP crowd would consider them a bit old fashioned at this time.

    Their performance with Maria Stader of BWV 51, "Jauchzet Gott in allen landen" is the best I've ever heard. Magnificent!
    Last edited by hpowders; Oct-23-2016 at 21:31.
    Facts don't care about your feelings.

  2. #47
    Traverso
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    I like to ask you to listen to the two videos.

    I favor the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt and I like to illustate this with the cantate "Gott is unsere Zuversicht".
    Suzuki is good but I miss something wich is present in the cantate directed by Gustav Leonhardt.
    I hope you will give it your attention and response.





    I hope that there wil be some forum members who are willing to listen and give there views.
    It can't be serious that the Bach cantatas draw so little attention.
    Maybe I am on the wrong forum?

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  4. #48
    Senior Member helenora's Avatar
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    I tell you that from the first minute there is such an obvious difference in tempos! in this music tempo is crucially important.
    So, for me easy choice I go with Leonhardt. No need to hurry your horses Mr Suzuki!

    as for the rest , more detailed view I have to listen to both interpretations completely.
    Man muss das Leben tanzen

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by helenora View Post
    I tell you that from the first minute there is such an obvious difference in tempos! in this music tempo is crucially important.
    So, for me easy choice I go with Leonhardt. No need to hurry your horses Mr Suzuki!

    as for the rest , more detailed view I have to listen to both interpretations completely.
    I hope you do and I do look forward to your review.Please listen to the whole cantata and not just fragments.

    It is very rewarding,I can asure you.

  6. #50
    Senior Member helenora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traverso View Post
    I hope you do and I do look forward to your review.Please listen to the whole cantata and not just fragments.

    It is very rewarding,I can asure you.
    no worries! I'm experienced in that . I will. btw I never listen to fragments.....are there people who do so???? then I am very surprised.
    Man muss das Leben tanzen

  7. #51
    Senior Member helenora's Avatar
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    well, I've finished listening to two of them and to have more understanding of the difference between Leonhardt and Suzuki I've decided to listen to other cantatas available in both above mentioned interpretations.

    But at first sight for me Suzuki sounds more romantic, he tries to make it more "flowing" I mean the sound while the concept of cantatas isn't to be flowing, but clear in every sound ... that's what Leonhardt's interpretation has , it's deutlich and it's not about pronunciation, it's about how orchestra plays and it's never playful, while in Suzuki's version we can hear this playfulness in "dialogues" , when there is a dialogue between this and that instrument ...

    I'm for joy, but joy shouldn't be replaced by playfulness of interpreters.

    let's see how it looks in other cantatas with Suzuki. I've heard some praising reviews about Suzuki's set, but now I wonder why there is such a praise.
    Man muss das Leben tanzen

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  9. #52
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    I know exactly what you mean by "flowing",the Leonhardt is more incisive and rhythmically more convincing.Suzuki is more exterior and smoothly.I hope nobody feels offended.
    The Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is much older and you can hear the difficulties specially the trumpets wich sometimes sound ugly in the first recordings.
    The same goes for the boys sopranos,I wonder if it wil done again because voices are changing at a younger age.
    I listened to all the sacred cantatas and it was certainly not a waste of time.
    Last edited by Traverso; Oct-30-2016 at 19:22.

  10. #53
    Senior Member SiegendesLicht's Avatar
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    I have just listened to the two interpretations as well and pretty much agree with Helenora's assessment.

    And no, listening to all the cantatas is most certainly not a waste of time. In fact, the more I listen to them, the more rewarding and beautiful the experience becomes.
    ... yet for us will still remain the holy German art... (Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg)
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    God gave all men all earth to love,
    But since our hearts are small,
    Ordained for each one spot should prove
    Beloved over all.
    R. Kipling

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  12. #54
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    I go further with the Bach secular cantatas,its just so beautiful.....




  13. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegendesLicht View Post
    I have just listened to the two interpretations as well and pretty much agree with Helenora's assessment.

    And no, listening to all the cantatas is most certainly not a waste of time. In fact, the more I listen to them, the more rewarding and beautiful the experience becomes.
    You are so right,many hours filled with exquisite music lies ahead.
    Last edited by Traverso; Oct-30-2016 at 20:38.

  14. #56
    Senior Member helenora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traverso View Post
    I know exactly what you mean by "flowing",the Leonhardt is more incisive and rhythmically more convincing.Suzuki is more exterior and smoothly.I hope nobody feels offended.
    The Harnoncourt/Leonhardt is much older and you can hear the difficulties specially the trumpets wich sometimes sound ugly in the first recordings.
    The same goes for the boys sopranos,I wonder if it wil done again because voices are changing at a younger age.
    I listened to all the sacred cantatas and it was certainly not a waste of time.
    I agree that older recordings sound imperfect in some ways especially boys sopranos, but Suzuki's fast interpretations ruin even positive aspects of his orchestra sound. That's a pity.
    Man muss das Leben tanzen

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  16. #57
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    I find the Leonhardt more detailed, inherently dramatic and subtle. Both versions use a boy soprano, but the one for Leonhardt sounds like a little kid not ready for prime-time; since the soprano aria is not one of favorites, it's not a deal-breaker.
    Overall, a strong advantage for Leonhardt.

  17. #58
    Senior Member Ariasexta's Avatar
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    I recommended Gustav Leonhardt and Nikolaus Harnoncourts versions, because generally I feel highly satisfied with the overall presentation: instrumentation, recording accoustics, orchestration, very good bass voices or countertenors, also strangely I feel good with the boy soprano. However, I would still look for other versions with the true sopranos, because only by listening to true soprano version Bachs cantatas can be heard in their true harmonic characters. It is true that somehow, I can not dismiss the versions by Gustav and Nikolaus, their versions are still highly enjoyable and high quality. I am not sure if the boy soprano is more suitable but maybe there are other reasons I currently can not figure out yet. In fact boy soprano is being more frequently used in early music performances now, I have 2 recordings from Rondeau label of Andreas Hammerschmidts(1611-1674) and Hans Hasslers(1564-1612) choral works, both use boy sopranos, I do not think the boy sopranos really stand out from true sopranos in those two discs.

    As for Bachs cantatas, I also recommend recordings directed by Philippe Herreweghe, they are excellent too!but I have not heard from versions by Ton Koopman and Masaki Suzuki yet. They shall be excellent too, since they are so universally acclaimed as Gustav Leonhardt and Nikolaus Harnoncourt as conductors.
    Last edited by Ariasexta; Oct-31-2016 at 13:07.

  18. #59
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    It is a pity that the contribution with boy sopranos is no longer possible.Voices are breaking too early and there is too little time.Also commercially is it a risk.I am willing to accept the imperfections of a young boy soprano,there are certainly very beautiful arias and if it is good it is beyond belief.The timbre of a young boy is something special and not replaceable by a soprano.

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  20. #60
    Senior Member Ariasexta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traverso View Post
    It is a pity that the contribution with boy sopranos is no longer possible.Voices are breaking too early and there is too little time.Also commercially is it a risk.I am willing to accept the imperfections of a young boy soprano,there are certainly very beautiful arias and if it is good it is beyond belief.The timbre of a young boy is something special and not replaceable by a soprano.
    It is true the Teldec version has brilliant boy sopranos and boys tenor voice suit many Bachs arias very well, giving a really ethereal and warm quality and clarity of the text.

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