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Thread: An Interesting and Useful Treatise on Twentieth Century Music

  1. #391
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    Case in point: The fact that people hate Adorno more than Marcuse proves he's greater.

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    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
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    No one really hates Adorno though.

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  4. #393
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    Taruskin hates Adorno.

  5. #394
    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
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    You have to approach Adorno the way you approach the French philosophers, i.e. not take it so seriously. Then it's fun.

    The French philosophers of course knew that themselves, whereas Adorno sadly thought he was super serious.

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  7. #395
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nereffid View Post
    There's nothing wrong with nutshells.

    Unless you have bad dreams, of course.
    I see what you did there.
    Alan

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  9. #396
    Sr. Moderator Taggart's Avatar
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    Please stay on topic and avoid personal banter.

    Some posts have been removed.
    Music begins where words leave off. Music expresses the inexpressible.

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  11. #397
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold in Columbia View Post
    Well, it's just a fact that Adorno was a greater philosopher than Sibelius was a composer. An evil philosopher, of course, but then, we don't fail to recognize Wagner's greatness just because he was an evil composer.
    "Just a fact"? What makes Adorno "great"? Can a philosopher be great if he peddles pernicious nonsense? Is he great because he stays up all night penning impenetrable poppycock? Is he great because a lot of other "great" people say he is?

    "Evil composer"? What is an "evil composer"? Great art may be created by men who do evil deeds and think evil thoughts. They may be evil men - but not evil artists. And if a man's art is truly great, we ought to be at least temperate in judging the source of it evil.

    Wagner produced something inescapably great, even sublime. Adorno did not. The world would be poorer without Wagner. It would be better without Adorno.

  12. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    "Just a fact"? What makes Adorno "great"? Can a philosopher be great if he peddles pernicious nonsense?
    Yes, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Is he great because he stays up all night penning impenetrable poppycock?
    Yes, though no more than if he works during sensible daylight hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Is he great because a lot of other "great" people say he is?
    Well, he is if I say he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    "Evil composer"? What is an "evil composer"? Great art may be created by men who do evil deeds and think evil thoughts.
    More to the point is that great art may be created by men who create evil art.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    The world would be poorer without Wagner. It would be better without Adorno.
    The world would indeed be poorer without Wagner. It would also probably be more improved by the absence of Wagner than by the absence of Adorno.

  13. #399
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    The phenomenon of "Pet Composers" has always been highly amusing to me.

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    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanb View Post
    The phenomenon of "Pet Composers" has always been highly amusing to me.
    What is a pet composer?

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  17. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    What is a pet composer?
    Well for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki8wHMR-yOI

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  19. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    What is a pet composer?
    Nothing you need worry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathanb View Post
    Nothing you need worry about.
    Then why drop it into this discussion?

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    Several people have asked to know specifically what might be interesting and useful to them in Pauls' paper. Since StrangeMagic isn't here I think I can at least let the cat's nose out of the bag...

    1. We know that Pauls' compares various academic textbooks and the number and nature of various types of content in the Grove publications in various editions, but he has observed that a much more accurate history of music in the 20th-century (hereafter, 20thMH) is revealed in the reviews in Fanfare and Gramophone. He briefly touches on the subject, but he is proposing this as another method of gathering information necessary to write a more comprehensive account of 20thMH. I would love to see some form of summarized presentation of that data. I am certain that at least one person would be very happy to provide access to those archives.

    2. For those of you who are deeply interested in making an attempt to address social and personal injustices, Pauls discusses the scholar Alan "X", his research, and efforts to show the world the true heroism of a much-maligned 19th/20th century composer. I'll let you find the info if you are interested.

    3. He discusses at great length the tremendous abundance of piano composition and performance during this period and the many individuals who were involved in this area of music, one of the many examples is Raff's story.

    4. The tremendous explosion in the "salon" performances of other instruments, including the voice, and chamber music that has only just begun to be explored and included in the history of the century.

    .... these are just a very few examples.

    Since StrangeMagic shared with you a few examples that his motive for recommending the text is his love of learning; (I'd like to share a few of my examples, especially because I also have a research project that I would love to read, don't have time to do, and is much better suited to some of you... I will post this in some thread on Modernism or Post-Modernism so I don't divert this thread....)
    Last edited by JosefinaHW; May-03-2016 at 04:49. Reason: change in post location

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  24. #405
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    The thread is temporarily closed.

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