Page 1 of 27 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 405

Thread: An Interesting and Useful Treatise on Twentieth Century Music

  1. #1
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    3,707
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default An Interesting and Useful Treatise on Twentieth Century Music

    In a thread, "Russian Composers and Music", TC member JosefinaHW mentioned a recent (2014) doctoral thesis by one Herbert Pauls. It is titled Two Centuries in One: Musical Romanticism and the Twentieth Century and is available here:
    http://www.musicweb-international.co...ies_in_one.pdf

    It is a long (400 pages plus), thorough, but well-written and easily absorbed treatise that both JosefinaHW and I can recommend as very valuable background information for any discussion of the topics of "modernism", "tonal" v. "atonal", "Romanticism", "Neo-Romanticism" etc. that have so troubled the Forum recently. Pauls' argument in a nutshell, which he supports with some very interesting lists and tables, is that musical Romanticism/Neo-Romanticism overwhelmingly dominates the Twentieth Century, for which thesis he offers many arguments and much data. A corollary of this is that it would be very difficult to realize this if one relied primarily (until recently) on the major music history texts, which offer a significantly different view of the past hundred years. Pauls' Table 2 on pp. 51-52 is particularly enlightening. Of course, the thesis has nothing to do with whether any particular person should or should not like or listen to any particular kind or piece of music. It really is all a matter of taste.

    It would be useful to have the comments of those who commit themselves to reading the work, and there is certainly no time pressure to do so.

  2. Likes Manxfeeder, Becca, Truckload and 4 others liked this post
  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Posts
    11,624
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I have it downloaded. I don't know if I'll ever have time to read it, but it has an interesting premise.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,129
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    musical Romanticism/Neo-Romanticism overwhelmingly dominates the Twentieth Century
    Just makes more far-out music all the more precious...

  5. Likes some guy liked this post
  6. #4
    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'll look more closely later, but if this man is going to tell me to listen to Medtner, I'm out.

  7. Likes GreenMamba, mstar liked this post
  8. #5
    Senior Member Truckload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    596
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    In a thread, "Russian Composers and Music", TC member JosefinaHW mentioned a recent (2014) doctoral thesis by one Herbert Pauls. It is titled Two Centuries in One: Musical Romanticism and the Twentieth Century and is available here:
    http://www.musicweb-international.co...ies_in_one.pdf

    It would be useful to have the comments of those who commit themselves to reading the work, and there is certainly no time pressure to do so.
    Thank you so much for sharing. I plan to read this tonight. I can't wait to read what he has to say about Howard Hanson and Hindemith.
    Last edited by Truckload; Apr-27-2016 at 20:18.
    Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky - "I sit down to the piano regularly at nine-o'clock in the morning and Mesdames les Muses have learned to be on time for that rendezvous."

  9. #6
    Senior Member Chronochromie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,875
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    That recent thing around here that says that

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    musical Romanticism/Neo-Romanticism overwhelmingly dominates the Twentieth Century,.
    seems more like wishful thinking than what actually happened, but I'll give this guy a chance. I'll get back to you whenever I've read it.

  10. #7
    Senior Member Truckload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    596
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by isorhythm View Post
    I'll look more closely later, but if this man is going to tell me to listen to Medtner, I'm out.
    Do we know who Medtner is? I don't think we do. We might have to look him up on YouTube or Groves. Is this Nicolas Medtner who famously played the piano at the age of six? Hmmm, perhaps it is this guy?

    Nicolai Medtner
    Russ. composer and pianist. Studied Moscow Cons. (pf. with Safonov, comp. with Arensky and Taneyev). Prof. at Moscow Cons. 1902 – 03 , 1909 – 10 and 1914 – 21 . Left Russ. 1921 , living in Ger. and France and touring as virtuoso pianist. Amer. début 1924 with Philadelphia Orch. Wrote much pf. mus.; was influenced by Ger. romanticism. Wrote book, 1935 , opposing modern innovations and affirming faith in tonality. Wrote 3 pf. concs. ( 1914 – 18 , 1920 – 7 , 1940 – 3 ); 9 pf. sonatas ( 1896 – 1935 ); many genre pieces for pf., e.g. series called 34 Fairy‐Tales ( 1905 – 29 ); and many songs. Settled in Eng. 1935 . Patronized by Maharajah of Mysore.

    I had never heard of him. But now, because we have posted about him, he will live forever in the annals of Talk Classical. Here is link to his Concerto No. 1.

    Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky - "I sit down to the piano regularly at nine-o'clock in the morning and Mesdames les Muses have learned to be on time for that rendezvous."

  11. Likes JosefinaHW liked this post
  12. #8
    Senior Member Headphone Hermit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    2,315
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckload View Post
    Do we know who Medtner is? I don't think we do.

    I had never heard of him.
    But some of us do know about him

    some of us even enjoy his music

    ... and I am thankful to Nikolai Demidenko for playing a Medtner piece as an encore at a concert a few years back because that is how I was first introduced to his music. I remember clearly that Demidenko said that Medtner was a genius. I was intrigued because I didn't know his music, but from that one piece (one of the skazki) I then went on to explore his other music - some lovely piano solo pieces, enjoyable piano concertos and some wonderful songs. Of course, there are some (many, even) who don't care for his music, and I wouldn't say anyone should enjoy his music, but it is only fair to give it a listen before dismissing it
    "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." Berlioz, 1856

  13. Likes Truckload, Woodduck, fluteman and 1 others liked this post
  14. #9
    Senior Member Truckload's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    596
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Headphone Hermit View Post
    But some of us do know about him

    some of us even enjoy his music

    ... and I am thankful to Nikolai Demidenko for playing a Medtner piece as an encore at a concert a few years back because that is how I was first introduced to his music. I remember clearly that Demidenko said that Medtner was a genius. I was intrigued because I didn't know his music, but from that one piece (one of the skazki) I then went on to explore his other music - some lovely piano solo pieces, enjoyable piano concertos and some wonderful songs. Of course, there are some (many, even) who don't care for his music, and I wouldn't say anyone should enjoy his music, but it is only fair to give it a listen before dismissing it
    I was listening to his Concerto No. 1 just now. Very emotional, very moving. It didn't quite rise to the "knock my socks off" level of the Beethoven P.C. #5 or the Rach. P.C.#2, but really quite attractive. I don't know why someone would hate Medtner. And I'm glad Isorythm mentioned him. I always love it when I find someone that is "new to me".
    Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky - "I sit down to the piano regularly at nine-o'clock in the morning and Mesdames les Muses have learned to be on time for that rendezvous."

  15. #10
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    3,707
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    We have Becca, and then the persistence of JosefinaHW, to thank for this publication. Becca mentioned some links in a thread on Boulez, and JosefinaHW patiently worked through the links and came up with Herbert Pauls' dissertation. Blame them.
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Apr-27-2016 at 21:23.

  16. Likes Truckload liked this post
  17. #11
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    3,024
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    No good deed goes unpunished

  18. Likes Strange Magic liked this post
  19. #12
    Senior Member isorhythm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    2,329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'm happy some are enjoying Medtner's music! I have tried.

  20. Likes Vaneyes liked this post
  21. #13
    Senior Member Nereffid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Co. Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    5,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    We have Becca, and then the persistence of JosefinaHW, to thank for this publication. Becca mentioned some links in a thread on Boulez, and JosefinaHW patiently worked through the links and came up with Herbert Pauls' dissertation. Blame them.
    to all involved in bringing this to our attention!

    I'm making my way through it and find it fascinating reading. Of course as I read I can already hear TC's voices of disapproval - but to me it's a perspective that clarifies a lot of thoughts I've had on the subject.
    See the results of my polls: most-liked composers and most-liked works.

  22. Likes JosefinaHW liked this post
  23. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    7,504
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nereffid View Post
    to all involved in bringing this to our attention!

    I'm making my way through it and find it fascinating reading. Of course as I read I can already hear TC's voices of disapproval - but to me it's a perspective that clarifies a lot of thoughts I've had on the subject.
    Could you give a longer precis of his argument than the OP?

    edit: actually don't bother - ten pages in and I can already see what I'm in for. Unfortunately.
    Last edited by SimonNZ; Apr-28-2016 at 07:52.

  24. Likes some guy liked this post
  25. #15
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    17,741
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    In a thread, "Russian Composers and Music", TC member JosefinaHW mentioned a recent (2014) doctoral thesis by one Herbert Pauls. It is titled Two Centuries in One: Musical Romanticism and the Twentieth Century and is available here:
    http://www.musicweb-international.co...ies_in_one.pdf
    I have just downloaded this and read a few pages. Fascinating indeed! I will be reading the whole thing and hope not to forget this thread so I can add a comment or two.


  26. Likes JosefinaHW liked this post
Page 1 of 27 1234511 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Was Maryanne Amacher one of the greatest twentieth century composers?
    By some guy in forum Classical Music Discussion Polls
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Oct-05-2014, 13:04
  2. Replies: 52
    Last Post: Sep-13-2014, 01:33
  3. Your "top 10" works for individual composers of the twentieth century
    By Sid James in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: Nov-17-2012, 10:41
  4. An alternate view of the twentieth century
    By some guy in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: Nov-01-2012, 21:10
  5. Narratives of twentieth century music
    By some guy in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jan-03-2012, 05:58

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •