Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 68

Thread: Would the Great Composers be Conservative, Moderate or Liberal?

  1. #1
    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,506
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Would the Great Composers be Conservative, Moderate or Liberal?

    Would the great composers be conservative, moderate or liberal?

    Seems like we know what a few of them were. Does anyone know which were which?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    10,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    44

    Default

    The Political Compass has this to offer:




    Dispute it as you like, but it's generally based on the composers' stated political positions or their stances towards various issues.

  3. Likes arpeggio, N/A, SixFootScowl and 4 others liked this post
  4. #3
    dogen
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahlerian View Post
    The Political Compass has this to offer:




    Dispute it as you like, but it's generally based on the composers' stated political positions or their stances towards various issues.
    So Wagner really was a Nazi then!

  5. Likes Wood, dzc4627 liked this post
  6. #4
    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,506
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    It was Nietzsche who people say was proto-Nazi. Since they had the split, could they still be agreed?

  7. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    10,588
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by regenmusic View Post
    It was Nietzsche who people say was proto-Nazi. Since they had the split, could they still be agreed?
    Ridiculous in both cases, but Nietzsche particularly despised political movements and populism. Given that Nazism was a populist political movement, there's little doubt that he wouldn't have seen much to admire.

  8. #6
    Retired TurnaboutVox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    South-west Scotland, UK
    Posts
    4,522
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Holst, Vaughan Williams, Ruth Crawford Seeger and Aaron Copland were socialists or 'progressives', I believe. Bartok and Luigi Nono were known to be strongly anti-fascist in their views. Presumably Frederic Rzewski is also a socialist.

  9. Likes Mahlerian, N/A, Wood liked this post
  10. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    39,995
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahlerian View Post
    The Political Compass has this to offer:




    Dispute it as you like, but it's generally based on the composers' stated political positions or their stances towards various issues.
    Fascinating graphic.

  11. Likes SixFootScowl liked this post
  12. #8
    MacLeod
    Guest

    Default

    Poor Schumann - no friends in his box!

    Hmmm...'left', 'right', authoritarian', 'libertarian'...

    ...but no 'conservative', 'liberal', or 'moderate'.

    Thread drift?

  13. Likes N/A liked this post
  14. #9
    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,506
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think we can say that corruption in any form the great composers would be against. Corruption can manifest in a right, left or moderate position.

  15. #10
    Senior Member GreenMamba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    3,095
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I believe English composer Cornelius Cardew was a leftist. I dunno, just a hunch.

  16. Likes N/A liked this post
  17. #11
    dogen
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMamba View Post
    I believe English composer Cornelius Cardew was a leftist. I dunno, just a hunch.
    You may be on to something there.

    Just to be clear, his death was an accident.

  18. #12
    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,237
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahlerian View Post
    Ridiculous in both cases, but Nietzsche particularly despised political movements and populism. Given that Nazism was a populist political movement, there's little doubt that he wouldn't have seen much to admire.
    Regarding Nietzsche and Fascism, I find this quote interesting, perhaps even true:

    "If Marx is inseparably linked to the growth of communism, it must be admitted that Nietzsche is linked to the emergence of fascism in the twentieth century. The relation of fascism to Nietzsche recalls the relation of the French Revolution to Rousseau. The problem of Nietzsche's connection with fascism is unfortunately not resolved by claiming, as many interpreters of Nietzsche are prone to do, that Nietzsche was no fascist, that he was a violent critic of German nationalism, and that he would have loathed Hitler. These things are undoubtedly true, and uttering them shows the absurdity of a crude identification of Nietzsche's doctrines with Hitler's ravings. Nietzsche was a man with a noble vision of man's future. His own delicacy, integrity, and courage shine through his writing. He was also free of the crude racism which was to be an important element of fascism, and he had only contempt for political anti-Semitism. But the fact remains that in various ways Nietzsche influenced fascism. Fascism may have abused the words of Nietzsche, but his words are singularly easy to abuse."

    -Werner J. Dannhauser, "Nietzsche", in Leo Strauss and Joseph Cropsey, eds. History of political philosophy 3rd ed. (1987)

    Nietzsche was not a Nazi, not an anti-Semite, but he was quite anti-liberal, reactionary and elitist in many ways, so there's quite a lot of stuff in Nietzsche's writing that fascists can like.
    Last edited by Dim7; Jul-20-2016 at 16:31.

  19. Likes N/A, Mahlerian, Adam Weber liked this post
  20. #13
    Senior Member Sloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,778
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    If anything most of the great composers were not Americans and they would not identify themselves in within these limits.
    The one thing I can say is that few of the composers have been liberals most composers seems to have been socialists, conservatives and nationalists. I can´t think of any liberal composer.

  21. #14
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Nova Caesarea
    Posts
    5,508
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloe View Post
    If anything most of the great composers were not Americans and they would not identify themselves in within these limits.
    The one thing I can say is that few of the composers have been liberals most composers seems to have been socialists, conservatives and nationalists. I can´t think of any liberal composer.
    Maybe not a Great Composer, but Leonard Bernstein was a prototypical American liberal.

  22. #15
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    17,097
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dogen View Post
    So Wagner really was a Nazi then!
    Wagner was a friend of anarchist Mikhail Bakunin, and he had to go into exile for participating in the anarchist uprising of 1848. He detested political and religious institutions, he hated militarism and violence, he refused to be associated with movements to abridge the civil rights of Jews, and even when ideas of the Aryan "master race" were introduced to him late in life by proto-Nazi ideologue Gobineau he rejected them. His operas dramatize, among other things, the disastrous oppressiveness of artificial institutions and the lust for power that sustains them, and show, in mythic form, the individual soul's struggle against forces that would constrain it.

    So no, Wagner was not a Nazi, and this associating him with the "authoritarian right" is just more of the usual ignorant nonsense. An error of this magnitude thoroughly discredits the entire graph.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Can Great Instrumental Composers Be Weak Vocal Composers?
    By ArtMusic in forum Classical Music Discussion Polls
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: Nov-10-2015, 23:40
  2. Those lingering, harmonically conservative composers of the early 20th century
    By clavichorder in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Sep-20-2015, 18:53
  3. Most Conservative Great Composers
    By Rapide in forum Classical Music Discussion Polls
    Replies: 106
    Last Post: Nov-19-2013, 16:30
  4. Will there ever be any more truly great composers?
    By bassClef in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: Jun-27-2012, 20:17
  5. Are you musically conservative, moderate, or liberal?
    By Mirror Image in forum Classical Music Discussion Polls
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: Sep-20-2009, 14:05

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •