View Poll Results: Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

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  • Yes

    77 41.18%
  • No

    110 58.82%
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Thread: Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

  1. #136
    Andante
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Elgar View Post
    Music Psychology and Music Theory: Problems and Prospects Music Psychology and Music Theory: Problems and Prospects Carol L. Krumhansl Music Theory Spectrum, Vol. 17, No. 1 (Spring, 1995), pp. 53-80

    The Evolution of Twelve-Note Music The Evolution of Twelve-Note Music Oliver Neighbour Proceedings of the Royal Musical Association, 81st Sess., (1954 - 1955), pp. 49-61

    Review: Are There Two Tonal Practices in Nineteenth-Century Music? Review: Are There Two Tonal Practices in Nineteenth-Century Music? Robert P. Morgan Reviewed work(s): The Second Practice of Nineteeth-Century Tonality by William Kinderman; Harald Krebs Journal of Music Theory, Vol. 43, No. 1 (Spring, 1999), pp. 135-163

    I also checked with my analysis tutor, Stephen Jan, who has written books on this matter and he has clarified that even though there is a physical basis for the dominant/tonic relationship, the recognition of this is learned through exposure to scales and tonal music.
    That's one amazing post Ed what exactly is it referring to

  2. #137
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Kiely was pushing me for an article on this thread in relation to another thread which led to me to accidentally post them on this thread.
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  3. #138
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    Finally someone directs this debate back to where it should be!

  4. #139
    Andante
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Elgar View Post
    Kiely was pushing me for an article on this thread in relation to another thread which led to me to accidentally post them on this thread.
    Aha, yep, makes sense.

  5. #140
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Stop accusing other members! Anyone! Otherwise we will have to close this thread...

    On topic...

  6. #141
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Without insulting anyone, posting ad hominems or fallacies, I am interested to know how those who voted "NO" explain the use of the laptop in pop. I calmly ask for posts illustrating your opinions.

    To be honest, and with the greatest of respect, I personally think the moderators have been quite lenient. Although I thank them for this, it's clear that if people argue in such an aggressive manner that their valuable comments are overshadowed, this does not equate to good, healthy discussions.
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  7. #142
    Andante
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    Well I am tired and bored by this thread, it has become farcical and to Quote JTech82 "No, a laptop is not an instrument. Why? Because it's a freaking computer that's why!". Now if this is not acceptable to some "so be it" I am unsubscribing from this thread so the best of luck to those wishing to keep banging their heads against a wall

  8. #143
    some guy
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    Hmmm, maybe we should ask then "What is a freaking computer?"

    Why, it's a machine that can be made to do all sorts of things, including music.

    Why is that so hard to accept?

    (Not that it's being designed, via its software, to make music is a necessary criteria for our argument. After all, one COULD say that an auto brake drum is not a musical instrument, why? because it's a freaking car part!, but I doubt that symphony orchestras would then rush to purge their percussion sections of this useful and common part of the ensemble, with a unique and distinctive sound. Nor that anyone would want to stop performing Il trovatore because it has a freaking blacksmith tool in it. Just so, all the laptop artists (pop and classical) are not going to suddenly stop playing music with their laptops just because some people at Talk Classical have voted "No" on this question! Just sayin'.)

  9. #144
    Senior Member jhar26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Hmmm, maybe we should ask then "What is a freaking computer?"

    Why, it's a machine that can be made to do all sorts of things, including music.

    Why is that so hard to accept?

    (Not that it's being designed, via its software, to make music is a necessary criteria for our argument. After all, one COULD say that an auto brake drum is not a musical instrument, why? because it's a freaking car part!, but I doubt that symphony orchestras would then rush to purge their percussion sections of this useful and common part of the ensemble, with a unique and distinctive sound. Nor that anyone would want to stop performing Il trovatore because it has a freaking blacksmith tool in it. Just so, all the laptop artists (pop and classical) are not going to suddenly stop playing music with their laptops just because some people at Talk Classical have voted "No" on this question! Just sayin'.)
    I think that people regard this poll more as a referendum about whether they like the laptop as a musical instrument as opposed to whether it qualifies as one.

    All in my modest opinion of course. I don't want the next poster to bite my nose off.

  10. #145
    Senior Member Elgarian's Avatar
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    I think that people regard this poll more as a referendum about whether they like the laptop as a musical instrument as opposed to whether it qualifies as one.
    Yes, that does seem to be how many people have interpreted the question.

    All in my modest opinion of course. I don't want the next poster to bite my nose off.
    I'm the next poster, so your nose is safe.


    It occurs to me that there are more traditional grey areas where the same kind of argument might rage, and thereby take some heat off the poor old laptop. What is the status of the 'comb and paper', for instance? Or spoons? Or playing a tune on a set of wineglasses, all filled with different levels of water? What of the human voice (now there's a question to get the wagons rolling)?

    It seems to me that they become musical instruments at the moment we decide to use them as musical instruments (just like Andante's famous driftwood xylophone). Like any musical instruments, they can make dreadful noises under certain conditions - so the issue of whether we 'like' the music they produce doesn't seem to be part of the question. (I don't like the sound of solo harpsicord, but I accept that it's a musical instrument.) The question, surely, centres around intentionality; whether the laptop is a good or bad instrument is a quite separate matter.

  11. #146
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhar26 View Post
    I think that people regard this poll more as a referendum about whether they like the laptop as a musical instrument as opposed to whether it qualifies as one.

    All in my modest opinion of course. I don't want the next poster to bite my nose off.
    I think someone should have started the thread; "do you like the use of the laptop as a musical instrument" lol!

    Saying this, I think it healthy sometimes to put aside our preferences with a willingness to accept. This is what I did with classical/art music laptop performance, and I've gone from having an indifference towards the medium to having found spiritual (or at least profound) meaning in it.
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  12. #147
    Senior Member Herzeleide's Avatar
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    Scientifically, laptops would be considered an Electrophone, whereas anything which one strikes to make a sound would be classed an Idiophone.

  13. #148
    some guy
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    Yeah, I'd like to strike a few idiophones, myself, from time to time.

  14. #149
    Senior Member Herzeleide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Yeah, I'd like to strike a few idiophones, myself, from time to time.


    My definition was weak. Here's the Grove's far superior one:

    'General term for musical instruments that produce their sound by setting up vibrations in the substance of the instrument itself... Idiophones are subdivided into those which are struck, scraped, plucked, made to sound by friction or blown. The sound may be produced by the direct or the indirect action of the player. Each category is further subdivided according to the more detailed characteristics of an instrument.'

    Howard Mayer Brown and Frances Palmer. "Idiophone." Grove Music Online. Oxford Music Online. 8 Mar. 2009 <http://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/subscriber/article/grove/music/50024>

  15. #150
    Senior Member nickgray's Avatar
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    Somebody probably have said it, but... To say laptop is a musical instrument is kinda like saying that a piece of wood is a musical instrument. Obviously, you can install some daw, plug a VSTi and grab any kind of midi controller. Same thing with wood - you can make a guitar out of it, violin, viola, cello...
    Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

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