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Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

  • Yes

    Votes: 73 40.8%
  • No

    Votes: 106 59.2%

Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

80K views 352 replies 99 participants last post by  Ethereality 
#1 ·
I'm curious to find out what you all think on this matter.

Whatever your opinion, why not give us an insight into why you feel the way you do?
 
#5 ·
This is a touchy subject... it makes one think about what a musical instrument is. However, I think laptops aren't musical instruments for the most part because they aren't really used as such. Sure, composers may use them to compose, but that's composing. And some weird person may well use them as percussion instruments, but that's giving your computer a very short life expectancy. So I'd just as soon say "no" and get on with the more tried-and-true, effective instruments.
 
#102 ·
I'm sick of hearing ****** loud and incoherent noise coming from music tech computers and their attached speakers. Until I actually hear some music come out of them they are NOT instruments.
Either you have heard some purely **** music from laptops, and have a bad experience, or you are just closed-minded and believe that people who orchestrate computers are not real musicians. It takes a lot of skill to produce synthetic sounds from a laptop, and I would really like to see you try. If you are going to bash a musical instrument so much, you have to get to know it, and try composing music with it. Without enough knowledge, you are trying to support a meaningless argument.
 
#9 ·
This is an interesting question indeed and sort of similar to "are stereo speakers instruments"? Well, obviously they emit the organised sound closely matching that... of original instruments used in a recording.

I actually suspect that this thread was inspired by seeing some videos of music actually composed for speakers used as instruments (with interference applied to them or whatever) or the one with a laptop used with a chamber orchestra to "mix live" baroque pieces or something like that.

Well, I shall give a twist to the thread by saying this: I think the true instruments are acoustic instruments. The electronic ones are just artificially creating something which may match the original acoustic ones. I have no intention of igniting an endless "ping pong" of argumentative posts. Just use it as an example of a way of thinking, not necessarily right or wrong. However, I have come to some interesting points in this area and would be more than happy to see your comments on the following:

1. electronic pianos

They can also play the sounds of "violin" etc. are an obvious attempt at closely matching the "original" in one box and yet are no match for a separate instrument with its subtle individual colours and richness - so even though you can learn how to play piano using such devices or imitate the sound of symphonic violins, it still is no match for a Bosendorfer or a Stradivarius :)

2. things like theremin etc.

They can imitate eerie soprano-like sounds as well as cello-like etc. and still - do not fully reflect a real human voice or a real cello

3. acoustic vs. electro-acoustic

Come to think of it, many cultures around the world developed very similar instruments - regardless whether Chinese, Japanese, Native American, African etc. - there are many similar flute-like instruments, guitar-like instruments, harp-like etc. So I tend to believe that the instruments themselves are just physical representations of some higher order of more abstract and universal things like harmonies etc. However, these abstract things gain their perceivable shape and richness only when physical objects interact with the air whereas a stream of electrons coming into the equation will only give an additional twist or an approximation lacking depth and multidimensionality.

Just to give you an example for the last hypothesis: electric guitars are loved by metal fans for their ability to create powerful "heavy" sound - and yet, the cello section of an orchestra can give you something as heavy and intense, and yet a bit more complex and perhaps more pleasant to the ear. Similarly, guitars are loved for their "rough" sound but this is also something you typically get from a wheel fiddle (also called the hurdy gurdy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurdy_gurdy

I generally believe the common misconception that electronically you can create more varied sounds is somehow incorrect - in the way that there are a lot of forgotten or only regionally known instruments (wheel fiddle, daf, cajon etc.) which can offer a lot in terms of variety.

And yet there is another twist to the story. Having said all that, I rarely listen to live instruments playing. So, I am listening to an approximation generated by means of the speakers or earbuds combined with the circuitry of a computer, home stereo system or portable media player. And therefore, the question could be: in our daily listening, do we actually listen to instruments?
 
#12 ·
Completely ruins Turangalîla-Symphonie - absolutely amazing piece, but it just sounds like a childish bird type whistle whenever that horrible contraption plays. Haven't heard it other pieces. Plus, it lacks the expresivity and subtlety of wind similar sounding/played actual instruments. The theremin is limited in it's expression, but at least it does have some.
 
#28 ·
Turangalila-Symphonie is absolutely unimaginable without Ondes Martenot. It has colour, structural, melodic function in this work, what acoustic instrument could replace it in its glissando efects in this symphony? One can like or dislike this work, but to like it with reservation like this, it is funny. Without Ondes it would lost its identity.
 
#13 ·
I think on balance a laptop CAN be a musical instrument, if it is used by someone in a
musically interesting way, not just dial twisting or 'tapping' emptily. In general, I'm not a great fan of electronic/electric instruments, but I think they can be effective at times. I guess I think more of those in the context of jazz or even some exploratory pop overall though. But some of the laptop effects by skilled player like, say, percussionist Ikue Mori, I find very interesting & appealing.

Ed
 
#14 ·
Let me reword what I mean:

If everyone in the world played trumpet or oboe the way I did, I would not consider it an instrument. Now relate that to a computer.

Also, it MUST be creative, as said above, adjusting the volume of a track you pre-created (I know it is much more involved than that...), does not constitute enough creativity in my mind.
 
G
#16 ·
Well you know what my answer will be, ;) but just to make sure I have tried blowing it, bowing it, plucking it, I have tried playing the keys and hitting it with Drum sticks, in desperation I even tried sucking it, So NO IMHO it is not a musical instrument that is not to say that it can't be used to make notes into a melody etc and I have heard a few examples i.e. Douglas Lilburn, it is a tool, just that.
 
#17 ·
Well you know what my answer will be, ;) but just to make sure I have tried blowing it, bowing it, plucking it, I have tried playing the keys and hitting it with Drum sticks, in desperation I even tried sucking it, So NO IMHO it is not a musical instrument that is not to say that it can't be used to make notes into a melody etc and I have heard a few examples i.e. Douglas Lilburn, it is a tool, just that.
As much as I agree, I don't see your reasoning. I don't see how not blowing it makes it not an instrument. And for the record, all instruments are just tools for producing and expressing music, including the voice.
 
#20 ·
So NO IMHO it is not a musical instrument that is not to say that it can't be used to make notes into a melody etc and I have heard a few examples i.e. Douglas Lilburn, it is a tool, just that.
I thought this section was where you were being serious, and the other you were too, but using humours aspects. But okay.

Yagan you are being pedantic so if you agree with me but not my reasoning pray give your reasoning.
Never said I had any. Maybe later in life, when I devote some time and effort into it I'll give an opinion.

Perhaps they lacked your own superior musical aestheic.
Maybe indeed. Nazis probably injected Messiaen with a drug to make him aesthetically retarded in assessing whether an obscure instrument is exceptional or not.
 
#21 ·
I think the problem is that different people are working with different definitions of the term 'musical instrument'. Until we all agree about what that definition is, we can't get any resolution of the issue of whether a laptop is one. However, on the most basic level: since the laptop can be programmed to play different notes when different keys are pressed, it seems to me to have all the potential for being called an instrument (no less than a synthesiser, say).

(Is a triangle a musical instrument, by the way?)
 
G
#22 ·
We all know what is meant by "A musical instrument" I would say a musical instrument is that which is meant to make music, A computer is a tool that can do many things but was not primary intended to be played as a musical instrument, that it can be used to produce notes, chords etc is not contested.
I must admit I am somewhat biased as I prefer acoustic instruments and not those that rely on electricity to produce sound, Electric Guitars, synthesisers and the such leave me unmoved.
So we now debate the definition of musical instrument, I have seen it attempted on other sites and nothing ever seems to get resolved, but I will join in, it is a bit of fun. :)
 
#23 ·
Well, now we have a start, with two apparently clear choices:
1. A musical instrument is a device intended to be used to play music.
2. A musical instrument is a device which can be used to play music.

If we accept (1) as the definition (I guess most of us would favour this), then it looks like a laptop isn't one. If we accept (2) as the definition, than a laptop is one. But I don't think it's so clear as that. A 'laptop with suitable music-playing software' could be described as a composite device intended to be used to play music. So then, it is one. And round in circles we go.

My aim is really just to observe that this appears to be a discussion about laptops, but actually it's a debate about what the term 'musical instrument' is generally accepted to mean.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Turangalila-Symphonie is absolutely unimaginable without Ondes Martenot. It has colour, structural, melodic function in this work, what acoustic instrument could replace it in its glissando efects in this symphony? One can like or dislike this work, but to like it with reservation like this, it is funny. Without Ondes it would lost its identity.
Strange, I always liked the piano part. Obviously every other part of the symphony is completely opbsolete. My bad!

When it isn't doing it foul glisses, it is virtually inaudable (or at least dispensable), and when it does do the glisses, it sounds horrible. Glisses (I mean glisses, not the varients) on violins sounds sickling (I mean that literally), and the same result can be achived with other methods. There is not musical reasoning to compose for that instrument only possible extra musical reasoning. It is a very unsubtle instrument. The only possible reasoning is that he wanted to do something different. A reasoning that almost all 20th century composers have been plagued with.
 
#34 ·
If it is inaudible it is the fault of the player.
It is inaudible because of the quality of it's sound. If it were to be louder it would not balance.
'Unsubtle' implies that the performer does not have full control over the sounds produced.
It can imply it all it wants. I'm talking about the sound it produces: it's limited approach to notes (I'm using limited metaphorically).

The ondes can be played as a keyboard, with a variety of registrations, but it can also be played like a string instrument, so that the player has full control of intonation, dynamics, vibrato and attack. To compare the ondes unfavourably with the theremin, which I have only ever heard played out of tune (I don't think it can be played any other way) seems to me to be perverse.
I like the therimin like I like Schoenberg, very limited expressivity, but what it does express, it does very well. I find the ondes to sound like a joke no matter how it is played.

That one movement, in my view, is sufficient justification to regard the ondes as an authentic and expressive musical instrument.
Again, it fails to express anything to be, it just sits their rudly interrupting the beauty and colour of the instruments surrounding it.
 
#42 · (Edited)
If by popularity you mean Britney Spears kind of popularity - probably not :) Still, he is rather well known among classical music listeners, especially those tending to listen to more pieces from mid and late 20th century era. And I must admit that although I usually do not go further than Holst and Sibelius, I think Messiaen is one of the 20th century composers that I might give a closer listen one day. I liked "Jardin du Sommeil d’amour" and I also like "Le Banquet Celeste". And I do like the "crazy" titles :)
 
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