View Poll Results: Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

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  • Yes

    73 40.78%
  • No

    106 59.22%
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Thread: Do you consider the laptop to be a musical instrument?

  1. #121
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    End of this sub-debate!

  2. #122
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    Hey Schoenberg, Elgar: If you actually bother to read what I say and not take it out of context or misinterpret or misrepresent me, I'll bother getting back to you.

    Your arguments are laughably on subjects I never touched in my argument. Please try again.
    When have we ever done that?

    Also, if we make comments about a subject that you have not touched upon then that is obviously not a counter-argument. It's an invitation for you to express your views about the subject we raise, different or otherwise.

    Come on guys, let's not have this thread banned, the "NO"s are in the lead at the moment. Let's stick to debate on the laptop.

    For the majority who think the laptop isn't an instrument, how do you explain it's frequent use in the popular music insustry?
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  3. #123
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    Either you need to explain what you mean more or just don't bother posting on here at all. I have never taken you out of context, you are just making accusations and remarks that I do not agree with, is that not the purpose of this website in the first place? Thought so...
    You misinterpreted me once, and the rest of your argument were ad hominems. It seems it is against forum rules for me to point out what and how you misrepresented me, so you are just going to have to guess.

    You quoted me out of context, and misrepresented what I said. I never said that composers write desperately or laptops are desperation. That would be a lie to imply that I did, which you have on frequent occasions. Never said that, so go back and read all my posts so that you can actually understand what I said. Before you understand, we can;t get back on topic.

    For the majority who think the laptop isn't an instrument, how do you explain it's frequent use in the popular music insustry?
    I already have. Try reading.

    Oh and to the mods, did you know that you can;t discuss a topic in depth without making small diversions to a related topic to clarify something? Amazing huh? Maybe you should take that into your reasoning. Oh, and when someone misrepresents you, I didn't defending myself was not allowed. But it's good to see that you let his comment up. Great job! Keep up the fake moderating.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    I already have. Try reading.
    Your comment that "producers want to save money" does not justify your argument. In fact it almost justifies the use of the laptop as an instrument! Keep it up, you just might make it to being an open-minded individual!

    Can I get a response from others as to why the popular music industry would use the laptop as an instrument on such a regular basis? Particularly those who voted "NO".
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  5. #125
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    Keep it up, you just might make it to being an open-minded individual!
    Nice fallacy! Did you know, that, in arguments you are meant to avoid fallacies? Not rely on them? Just a quick tip okay?

    Your comment that "producers want to save money" does not justify your argument. In fact it almost justifies the use of the laptop as an instrument!
    Sorry, I forgot money was more important than musicality. Again YOU are backing up me saying that composers are so desperate to 'stick out' (no publicity is bad publicity) and make money that they sacrifice quality for concept, the music for uniqueness.

    There are obviously other reasons, pop music is such a genre that you don't really appreciate the minute detail (for one mostly it isn't there), but the emotion and the power of the music is what is immediately obvious to you.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Herzeleide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTech82 View Post
    Yeah and you're likely to hear it again too, so get used to it.
    What's the appeal of ramming down our throats your musical bugaboos when it's not germane to the thread?

  7. #127
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    Sorry, I forgot money was more important than musicality. Again YOU are backing up me saying that composers are so desperate to 'stick out' (no publicity is bad publicity) and make money that they sacrifice quality for concept, the music for uniqueness.
    This is something you have made up in your head. I was asking you about what you meant when you gave the comment you told me to read about music producers trying to save money by using the laptop as an instrument. From this you have made me out to be someone who doesn't give a damn about music quality! You are so eager to hand out ad hominems and yet some of your posts are quite baffling!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    There are obviously other reasons, pop music is such a genre that you don't really appreciate the minute detail (for one mostly it isn't there), but the emotion and the power of the music is what is immediately obvious to you.
    Here you imply that the laptop can be used to create immediate and obvious emotional power when used as an instrument. Does this mean you see the laptop as an instrument now?
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    Pop music is such a genre that you don't really appreciate the minute detail (for one mostly it isn't there), but the emotion and the power of the music is what is immediately obvious to you.
    What difference does it make then that it is made on a laptop? Does the soul suddenly get destroyed?!

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    ...

    I told someone this morning about this thread, and he couldn't imagine what kind of forum would contain people on it who would argue that the laptop is not a musical instrument. When I told him, he laughed and said "Oh, that explains it, then."

    Wow, is that the kind of reputation we want for Talk Classical?
    Not a very strong argument is it? You can't persuade a majority of posters here of your viewpoint so you tell a friend who then rubbishes the forum and you then come back and tell us that if we don't want a bad reputation we should change our minds and agree with him, one of your faceless friends. Bizarre to say the least.

  10. #130
    Senior Member some guy's Avatar
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    Gorm,

    It's no sort of argument at all. It's an anecdote.

    The faceless friend (actually it was my second son, who plays laptop, and who has a very nice face, even if it does look a bit like mine) did no sort of trashing at all. He merely observed that its being a classical forum explained how people could be seriously maintaining that laptops are not musical instruments. Nowhere else would that happen.

    And in fact, there are other classical forums where very few people would claim that it's not. That is just to say that this classical forum is not the only one. The posters to this thread are not the only posters in the world.

    I presented the anecdote principally to illustrate that there's more going on in the world, more opinions about things, more opinions favorable to the musics some of the posters just cannot accept, than many of those posters seem able to acknowledge. Bizarre? No, just a little look outside. If you don't want to look outside, too bad. You lose!

    Some

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by some guy View Post
    Gorm,

    It's no sort of argument at all. It's an anecdote.

    .

    And in fact, there are other classical forums where very few people would claim that it's not. That is just to say that this classical forum is not the only one. The posters to this thread are not the only posters in the world.
    Give us a link to this forum thread

  12. #132
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    This is something you have made up in your head. I was asking you about what you meant when you gave the comment you told me to read about music producers trying to save money by using the laptop as an instrument. From this you have made me out to be someone who doesn't give a damn about music quality! You are so eager to hand out ad hominems and yet some of your posts are quite baffling!
    Nice misrepresentation. Now. I haven't 'handed out ad hominems', Scheonberg has: not me. Also, where is that article?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yagan Kiely View Post
    I haven't 'handed out ad hominems', Scheonberg has.
    Excuse me but when have I handed out ad hominems? Which of my arguments have...

    [1] Resorted to a charecter attack instead of backing up my claims with valid reasons? I think you will find that all of my claims are backed up with valid reasons. When I did resort to charecter attack, it was becuase you were annoying me, not becuase I wanted to back up any statement!

    Find out what words mean before you accuse me of them!

  14. #134
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    Find out what words mean before you accuse me of them!
    Why do you add this? Does it make you feel smart or something? What's the point? Can't you control your emotions for a debate? Someone who is that emotion can't think straight and with an unbiased mind. If you clear your mind of the emotion you can think clearer. Think Vulcan!

    You are obviously an ignorant musician and I feel somewhat sorry for you, because you are limiting music to what you feel it should be.
    Ad hominem
    By saying that computers only 'imitate' instruments that already exist, I am unsure whether you are being dismissive and ignorant to back up your failing argument.
    Ad hominem
    Computers can manufacture sounds that we could only dream of making ourselves, taking listeners to a different level, and creating new genres of music.
    Not an ad hominem
    If you are that ignorant that you would totally defy this fact then you are a close-minded fool.
    Ad hominem

    pquote]Who in their right frame of mind would deliberately outlaw any musical instrument? That totally contradicts the fact that you call yourself a musician![/quote]Ad hominem

    All bar one sentence in that paragraph is an ad hominem fallacy. And apart from that one sentence, you didn't once even attempt to back up anything with a reason at all.

    Not to mention, you have failed to back your arguments up with any reasons, let alone valid ones, for as long as I've seen you (if memory serves, maybe once or twice).

  15. #135
    Senior Member Edward Elgar's Avatar
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    Looks like you're handing out ad hominem yellow cards to Mr Schoenberg! His reasoning comes from your responses or have you been so busy trying to spot ad hominems that you forgot that this is a debate?

    Why can't you keep to the matter at hand and answer my question? You have implied in a previous post that the laptop can be used to create immediate and obvious emotional power when used as an instrument. Does this mean you see the laptop as an instrument now?
    Last edited by Edward Elgar; Mar-03-2009 at 22:45.
    When all the paint has been dried, when all the stone has been carved, music shall remain, and we shall work with what remains.

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