View Poll Results: What's your favorite Tannhäuser?

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  • Barenboim: Chor der Deutschen Staatsoper Berlin & Staatskapelle Berlin

    2 5.56%
  • Cluytens: Bayreuth Festival Chorus & Orchestra (1955 live recording)

    1 2.78%
  • Elmendorff: Bayreuth Festival Chorus & Orchestra (1930 live recording)

    1 2.78%
  • Gerdes: Orchester und Chor der Deutschen Oper Berlin

    1 2.78%
  • Keilberth: Bayreuth Festival Chorus & Orchestra (1954 live recording)

    0 0%
  • Konwitschny: Berlin State Opera Chorus & Orchestra

    0 0%
  • Leinsdorf: Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Chorus (1941 live recording)

    4 11.11%
  • Sawallisch: Bayreuth Festival Chorus & Orchestra (1961 live recording)

    1 2.78%
  • Sawallisch: Bayreuth Festival Chorus & Orchestra (1962 live recording)

    8 22.22%
  • Sinopoli: Philharmonia Orchestra & Chorus of Royal Opera House Covent Garden

    3 8.33%
  • Solti: Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Vienna State Opera Chorus

    13 36.11%
  • Szell: Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Chorus (1942 live recording)

    1 2.78%
  • Szell: Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Chorus (1954 live recording)

    0 0%
  • Other

    1 2.78%
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Thread: Favorite recording of Tannhäuser: Poll

  1. #61
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itullian View Post
    Is that mono or stereo?
    The samples don't sound too good.
    I believe it's mono. Where are you listening to samples? It's recorded well with very good radio-quality sound.
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

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  3. #62
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itullian View Post
    Is that mono or stereo?
    The samples don't sound too good.
    I wonder if You Tube would be a better sample. Looks like this entire recording may be on You Tube track by track. Anyway, you can sample them there. I don't think it sounds all that bad, but most of my listening is in mono anyway. MY single ear bud combines both channels. Here are a few of the tracks:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJdB5u3qcR8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMisnj0opXU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDENaamYsPk
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  4. #63
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    I am about done with the Haitink set. The Heger set is good, but the Sawallisch set with Janowitx (I think 1972) is my favorite now.
    Still sticking with this Sawallisch recording over Haitink, Heger, and Sinopoli. Have Barenboim coming in the mail.
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  6. #64
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    Still sticking with this Sawallisch recording over Haitink, Heger, and Sinopoli. Have Barenboim coming in the mail.
    Ok, this Barenboim recording was taking too long so I listened to it on You Tube. I have to say I like the Barenboim Recording but the Sawallish recording in the post above remains my top choice. At this point, there is not much use in my chasing any more Tannhauser recordings, but rather to listen and enjoy. I feel a greater sense of drama in the Sawallisch recording (it is live too) and I like all the voices.

    Another thing. Isn't the Paris version supposed to be sung in French translation, but my Sinopoli set is not.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; Nov-14-2020 at 04:34.
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  7. #65
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    Ok, this Barenboim recording was taking too long so I listened to it on You Tube. I have to say I like the Barenboim Recording but the Sawallish recording in the post above remains my top choice. At this point, there is not much use in my chasing any more Tannhauser recordings, but rather to listen and enjoy. I feel a greater sense of drama in the Sawallisch recording (it is live too) and I like all the voices.

    Another thing. Isn't the Paris version supposed to be sung in French translation, but my Sinopoli set is not.
    The Barenboim recording is on YouTube? Could you show me? I tried looking for it on there more than once and couldn't even find excerpts.

    Hold on a moment, and I'll try my best to answer your question.
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

  8. #66
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Wikipedia lists differences between versions of the opera, but overall, it is presented sloppily, incompletely, and somewhat inaccurately. For anyone who wants a summary, I have tried my best to outline the different versions. A lot of this came from the Solti booklet, but also elsewhere, such as the helpful information shared in this thread: Tannhäuser: Different Scores. If there are mistakes anyone sees, let me know.


    Premiere Version (1845)

    - Like the Dresden Version, but Venus does not appear at the end.*


    *If I am not misunderstanding what I have read, Wagner probably used Leitmotivs for Venus at the end instead of having her actually be onstage. Apparently, this was changed because it was confusing. Wikipedia seems to say that the pilgrims’ chorus did not appear at the end either, but I don’t know if I’ve heard about this anywhere else. There are no recordings of this version, and I don’t even know if scores are available.


    Dresden Version (1847)

    - Like the premiere, but now Venus appears at the end.


    Paris Version (1861)

    - The ballet is extended, but the full overture remains and is not connected to the ballet (there is a pause between).

    - The words were translated into French by Charles Truinet.*


    *(Wikipedia says “Charles-Louis-Etienne Nuitter and others”, but Truinet is from the Solti booklet, so I’d rather go with Truinet.)


    - Venus’s music in Act I was mostly rewritten, now at a lower pitch and with some extra lines.

    - There is a little bit more music for the shepherd pipe cor anglais solo.

    - The little bit of instrumental music before Tannhäuser says “Zu ihr! Zu ihr!” towards the end of Act I is rewritten slightly.

    - Walther’s solo in Act II is removed.

    - “Zum Heil” towards the end of Act II is now a solo for Tannhäuser, whereas before it was an ensemble piece.

    - The little bit strings between the chorus of young pilgrims and “Nach Rom!” exclaimed by Tannhäuser at the end of Act II is rewritten and extended.

    - Some reorchestration and slight changes to the singing in Act III.
    *


    *(Personally, I have not noticed the changes in Act III, but they are mentioned in the Solti booklet.)


    Vienna Version (1875, uses a change made in 1872)

    - Basically the same as Paris Version, but in German and the extended ballet now is connected to the overture which has been trimmed to lead into the ballet.*


    *(In the Paris Version, the ballet music briefly starts like it does in the Dresden Version, but quickly switches to the new music.)


    The term “Paris Version” is typically referring to the Vienna Version. “Paris Version” is basically a catch-all term to describe those changes made from 1861 onward because it was in Paris that the largest changes were made. But if we wanted to be technical, what we normally call the “Paris Version” should be referred to as the Vienna Version since the opera is rarely performed in French and the extended ballet is rarely disconnected.

    There is another version – the Munich Version from 1867 (https://online.ucpress.edu/jams/arti...dFrom=fulltext). This is basically the Paris Version (including the detached extended ballet) but in German with “Dir töne Lob!” and Venus’s following lines (“Was muß ich hören?”) removed. I don’t think there was any new musical material made for this version though.


    I hope this helps clarify things. It seems I have officially obsessed over this opera, but hey, recently I need something to do in my free time!
    Last edited by adriesba; Nov-14-2020 at 07:45.
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  10. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post

    - The words were translated into French by Charles Truinet.*

    [/B]
    *(Wikipedia says “Charles-Louis-Etienne Nuitter and others”, but Truinet is from the Solti booklet, so I’d rather go with Truinet.)
    I notice that Truinet is an anagram of Nuttier, could one be the pen name of the other?

    Thanks for doing this by the way, it's very helpful. (I did something similar with the different versions of Carmen and Contes d'Hoffmann).

    N.

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  12. #68
    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post
    The Barenboim recording is on YouTube? Could you show me? I tried looking for it on there more than once and couldn't even find excerpts.

    Hold on a moment, and I'll try my best to answer your question.
    Here it is in three pieces, one act per video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxh_5YOU18
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKG8Op6f2IE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4nWFth1Gzw

    Your detailed presentation of the various versions is very helpful. I am leaning to prefer the Dresden Version. And I have to say that on second listen to the Barenboim recording, I think that it is an awesome recording and it probably should sit side-by-side with the Sawallisch/Janowitz recording on my list.
    Last edited by SixFootScowl; Nov-14-2020 at 16:51.
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  14. #69
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    I notice that Truinet is an anagram of Nuttier, could one be the pen name of the other?

    Thanks for doing this by the way, it's very helpful. (I did something similar with the different versions of Carmen and Contes d'Hoffmann).

    N.
    Aha! That is an interesting observation about the name. You are correct.
    https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/gr...0-e-0000020168

    Do you have the results you found for those two operas posted on the forum?
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

  15. #70
    Senior Member adriesba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixFootScowl View Post
    Here it is in three pieces, one act per video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpxh_5YOU18
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKG8Op6f2IE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4nWFth1Gzw

    Your detailed presentation of the various versions is very helpful. I am leaning to prefer the Dresden Version. And I have to say that on second listen to the Barenboim recording, I think that it is an awesome recording and it probably should sit side-by-side with the Sawallisch/Janowitz recording on my list.
    Thanks! I'm not sure why those didn't show up when I searched for it. Your CDs should sound a lot better when you get them. I have the Barenboim Lohengrin, and it has really good sound quality.
    "Pop music is for the body, but opera is for the soul." — Angela Gheorghiu

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  17. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriesba View Post
    Aha! That is an interesting observation about the name. You are correct.
    https://www.oxfordmusiconline.com/gr...0-e-0000020168

    Do you have the results you found for those two operas posted on the forum?
    I wrote about Carmen in this thread about Carmen recordings (so you get some info about different versions together with a recording review):

    Carmen on disc


    And this is where I did something similar with Hoffmann:

    Offenbach Opera on CD - Les Contes d'Hoffmann

    N.

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