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Thread: Böhm Wagner Ring in Bayreuth - Dates?

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Question Böhm Wagner Ring in Bayreuth - Dates?

    Of the several reeditions of the live recording in Bayreuth of Böhm's ring, I have serious doubts about the recordings they use:

    B000025ESY (2006): Booklet says live 1967 (The Black Box)
    B00159679S (2008): Booklet says live 1966 and 1967 (Bayreuth Decca Box set)
    B003Y3MYYU (2010): Back cover says live 1966 and 1967 (The Silver Box)
    B00AX20AHI (2013): Back cover says live 1967 (The Ugly Eloquence Box)

    Original Vinyl Box set (1973) ?

    Are there important differences between the two rings? Which is the one that got the most praise? I'm confused.



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    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    Are there important differences between the two rings? Which is the one that got the most praise? I'm confused.
    I'm fairly certain that they're all the same performances. The Ugly Eloquence box sounds a little better, and Universal almost, but not quite got the musical breaks right.

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    Senior Member Faustian's Avatar
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    Yes, I believe all those releases feature Bohm's Ring Cycle from Bayreuth 1966, with the addition of Gutrune's scene after Siegfried's Funeral March during Act III of Gotterdammerung that was recorded in 1967 because that scene had been cut by Wieland Wagner in the 1966 performances.

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    Senior Member DarkAngel's Avatar
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    All those Ring boxsets use the same recordings which take operas from both 1966 & 67 Bayreuth seasons to make one boxset, Bohm conducted both years and main roles keep same singers......Windgassen besides Siegfried also sings Loge role

    1966 - Rheingold, Siegfried
    1967 - Walkure, Gotterdammerung

    Don't know the backstory but Phillips label in thier infinite wisdom decided these were the 4 best performances of the two seasons overall for a live Bohm Ring boxset

    Operadepot has the complete 66 Bohm Ring for sale, looks like Bohm also conducted during the 65 Bayreuth season and operadepot has a couple individual operas

    Update: looking at boxset booklet 67 Bohm did not conduct complete Ring at Bayreuth only the two operas included in boxset (remaining operas by Otmar Suitner)
    Last edited by DarkAngel; Jun-30-2017 at 05:12.

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    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
    All those Ring boxsets use the same recordings which take operas from both 1966 & 67 Bayreuth seasons to make one boxset, Bohm conducted both years and main roles keep same singers......Windgassen besides Siegfried also sings Loge role

    1966 - Rheingold, Siegfried
    1967 - Walkure, Gotterdammerung

    Don't know the backstory but Phillips label in thier infinite wisdom decided these were the 4 best performances of the two seasons overall for a live Bohm Ring boxset

    Operadepot has the complete 66 Bohm Ring for sale, looks like Bohm also conducted during the 65 Bayreuth season and operadepot has a couple individual operas

    Update: looking at boxset booklet 67 Bohm did not conduct complete Ring at Bayreuth only the two operas included in boxset (remaining operas by Otmar Suitner)
    You are absolutely correct DA. All of the official boxes are 1966 and 1967 composites. Böhm didn't conduct Rheingold or Siegfried in 1967.
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
    All those Ring boxsets use the same recordings which take operas from both 1966 & 67 Bayreuth seasons to make one boxset, Bohm conducted both years and main roles keep same singers... Windgassen besides Siegfried also sings Loge role.

    1966 - Rheingold, Siegfried
    1967 - Walkure, Gotterdammerung


    Bohm did not conduct complete Ring at Bayreuth 1967, only the two operas included in boxset (remaining operas by Otmar Suitner)






    Maybe the wrong labeling began in the first CD transfer of the ring in ASIN B0000040YY (90s set). All back covers show the same year. The Booklet of B00AX20AHI (2013) is identical in the dates, reading "Live-Aufnahmen von den Bayreuther Festpielen 1967". The booklet of the latest remastering also puts the same 1967 in all operas.
    Last edited by Granate; Jul-03-2017 at 15:49.

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    Senior Member Barbebleu's Avatar
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    This labelling is just wrong. Bayreuth's own records confirm that Böhm only conducted Walküre and Götterdämmerung in '67. There were three cycles that year. Böhm conducted Walküre on 23 July and Götterdämmerung on the 27 July in the first cycle. Walküre on the 10 August and Götterdämmerung on the 14 August in the second cycle. Otmar Suitner conducted all of the third cycle from 18 to 22 August.
    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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    Senior Member Itullian's Avatar
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    I have the top red box and the newest Eloquence set.
    The Eloquence is the one to go for.
    Less hiss and fuller sound.
    Almost all Acts are whole on their own discs.
    Only Walkure act 2 and Gotterdammerung act 3, which should have been are not.
    Get it while you can.
    mho
    Last edited by Itullian; Jul-03-2017 at 18:04.
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    Senior Member wkasimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itullian View Post
    I have the top red box and the newest Eloquence set.
    The Eloquence is the one to go for.
    Less hiss and fuller sound.
    Almost all Acts are whole on their own discs.
    Only Walkure act 2 and Gotterdammerung act 3, which should have been.
    I agree on all counts. Hard to understand how they screwed up Gotterdammerung Act 3.

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    Senior Member gardibolt's Avatar
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    If you're curious, Opera Depot has the other parts of the 1966 Böhm Ring, with the butchered Götterdämmerung. They currently have 60% off prior to closing for holiday until August.
    Hours of unrecorded, unpublished and unknown Beethoven works at The Unheard Beethoven

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    Of the several reeditions of the live recording in Bayreuth of Böhm's ring, I have serious doubts about the recordings they use:

    B000025ESY (2006): Booklet says live 1967 (The Black Box)
    B00159679S (2008): Booklet says live 1966 and 1967 (Bayreuth Decca Box set)
    B003Y3MYYU (2010): Back cover says live 1966 and 1967 (The Silver Box)
    B00AX20AHI (2013): Back cover says live 1967 (The Ugly Eloquence Box)

    Original Vinyl Box set (1973) ?

    Are there important differences between the two rings? Which is the one that got the most praise? I'm confused.

    Back cover of Bayreuth Decca Box says live 1967 and 1971

    Last edited by mtonetti; Apr-24-2019 at 12:21.

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    Senior Member Granate's Avatar
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    That was a printing error that we discussed a long time ago. DG wanted to record the whole Ring plus Tristan und Isolde during the 1966 season in several sessions. However, Birgit Nilsson requested to record the least possible from the Ring as Isolde could be really demanding for her. DG accepted to record in 1966 Tristan, Rheingold and Siegfried, all with Karl Böhm. The conductor wasn't scheduled to return to conduct the Ring in Bayreuth anymore (he was going to do only 1965 premiere and 1966). So Otmar Suitner had to share in 1967 the Ring. Böhm conducted and later recorded for DG Die Walküre and Götterdämmerung, this last one with a pretty overparted Windgassen who did the feat of recording Tristan, Loge and Siegfried the previous year.

    DG wanted to release the Ring the same way they did with the mighty Tristan from 1966, but Karajan threatened to cancel his recording of the Ring in Berlin he had already started (Walküre the same year). Considering he was starting to move freely with Decca and then EMI again in the 1970s, DG had to let the Bayreuth Ring go. Philips got the rights to release the Bayreuth Ring in 1972, along the complete Canon (adding the 1962 Lohengrin and the 1970s Meistersinger, and only the DG Tristan sold in complete sets).

    Welcome to Talk Classical, mtonetti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granate View Post
    That was a printing error that we discussed a long time ago. DG wanted to record the whole Ring plus Tristan und Isolde during the 1966 season in several sessions. However, Birgit Nilsson requested to record the least possible from the Ring as Isolde could be really demanding for her. DG accepted to record in 1966 Tristan, Rheingold and Siegfried, all with Karl Böhm. The conductor wasn't scheduled to return to conduct the Ring in Bayreuth anymore (he was going to do only 1965 premiere and 1966). So Otmar Suitner had to share in 1967 the Ring. Böhm conducted and later recorded for DG Die Walküre and Götterdämmerung, this last one with a pretty overparted Windgassen who did the feat of recording Tristan, Loge and Siegfried the previous year.

    DG wanted to release the Ring the same way they did with the mighty Tristan from 1966, but Karajan threatened to cancel his recording of the Ring in Berlin he had already started (Walküre the same year). Considering he was starting to move freely with Decca and then EMI again in the 1970s, DG had to let the Bayreuth Ring go. Philips got the rights to release the Bayreuth Ring in 1972, along the complete Canon (adding the 1962 Lohengrin and the 1970s Meistersinger, and only the DG Tristan sold in complete sets).

    Welcome to Talk Classical, mtonetti.
    Thanks for the welcome and the prompt reply.

    1965-1969 (12 cycles)

    Director:
    Wieland Wagner
    Wolfgang Wagner

    Conductors:
    Karl Böhm (1965, 1966, 1967)
    Otmar Suitner (1966, 1967)
    Lorin Maazel(1968, 1969)

    Karl Böhm:
    Chor und Orchester der Bayreuther Festspiele
    Date/Location:
    1966 (Rheingold), 1967 (Walküre)
    1966 (Siegfried), 1967 (Götterdämmerung)

    https://wagnerdisco.net/audio/der-ri...bohm-bayreuth/
    Last edited by mtonetti; Apr-24-2019 at 19:20.

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    Remember that the lesser of two evils is still evil

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