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Wagner operas on disc....The Flying Dutchman

18K views 70 replies 18 participants last post by  SenaJurinac 
#1 · (Edited)
It's no secret I love Wagner's operas.
So I thought I'd go through them all, one at a time
starting with the first of his big 10.

So what's your favorite Dutchman? :)
 
#4 ·
I always have multiple favorites of Wagner operas.

Bayreuth 1959 is a great one, as is the Met performance from the following year, also with Rysanek and London. Other favorites are Bayreuth 1955 with Knappertsbusch (Uhde is superb in the title role), Bayreuth 1962 (great sound, but a rather ragtag cast, except for Franz Crass, who is the best Dutchman on record. The second best Dutchman, Hans Hotter, is featured on three recordings - I like the Met 1950 performance best.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I always have multiple favorites of Wagner operas.

Bayreuth 1959 is a great one, as is the Met performance from the following year, also with Rysanek and London. Other favorites are Bayreuth 1955 with Knappertsbusch (Uhde is superb in the title role), Bayreuth 1962 (great sound, but a rather ragtag cast, except for Franz Crass, who is the best Dutchman on record. The second best Dutchman, Hans Hotter, is featured on three recordings - I like the Met 1950 performance best.
I also love the Dutchman of Hans Hotter, the 50 MET is a saturday radio broadcast also showcasing Astrid right before her debut at 51 Bayreuth re-opening.....R Bing came on and was in the process of downsizing wagner at the MET so perfect career transition to Bayreuth for Varnay's wagner performances.....



I think HTF mentioned that Bohm with Konya before, will have to look into that (but not at current Amazon used prices)
Update: I did buy that last time HTF mentioned it..........
 
#6 · (Edited)
These three are all close for me, but I probably listen to the first a little more often nowadays.

World Poster Line Font Adaptation


My "favorite". Not the one I'd actually recommend though, since it's an unusual outlier cast and take on the opera. Sinopoli emphasizes the grace and lyricism in a way that's highly singular but I find very convincing. Weikl is too small for the part, but he works well within Sinopoli's almost pre-Wagnerian take on the opera. Domingo and Studer are excellent, and Domingo's ardor makes Erik almost a real character.

Font Tie Photo caption Poster Formal wear


Atmosphere Water resources World Organism Font


The ones I'd probably recommend. I gnash my teeth that Rysanek and Uhde (or Hotter) never recorded this with Keilberth or Sawallisch or Bohm, since they're my favorite performers for these roles. The Keilberth has better sound and the unmatched Hollander, but the Bohm has a stronger overall cast, especially with Konya ideally cast as Erik.
 
#13 ·
Probably Bayreuth 1955, both editions.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
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#17 · (Edited)


I'll be odd man out I guess and go for Solti's exciting recording.
It was my first Dutchman on vinyl and with its latest excellent remastering remains
my favorite. Not perfect, but the orchestra is awesome. I like Bailey in the title role.
The Senta is a bit shrill but exciting.
:)
 
#19 ·
Wagner Challenge update - Favourite STEREO DFH



Wagner
DER FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WWV 63
Robert Hale
Hildegard Behrens
Kurt Rydl
Josef Protschka
Uwe Heilmann
Iris Vermillion

Konzertvereinigung Wiener Staatsopernchor
Wiener Philharmoniker
Cristoph von Dohnányi
Decca (1991)




Wagner
DER FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WWV 63 Live recording
Franz Crass
Anja Silja
Josef Greindl
Fritz Uhl
Georg Paskuda
Res Fischer

Chor und Orchester der Bayreuther Festspiele
Wolfgang Sawallisch
Decca (1961/2008 Reissue Edition)


Now that I carelessly broke my 1000 posts number in New Members, I share with you my favourite stereo Holländers. Apart from these two, I also like Sinopoli / Deutsches Oper Berlin. And nothing else (in stereo). I must thank Florestan/Fritz Kobus for the Dohnányi shout-out. After the disastrous Bruckner recordings, he wasn't on my list at all, but once I was getting extremely bored by the highly-praised Klemperer, I gave it a go and while it's not "desert-island", the whole cast and the orchestra are on top. On my buy list.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I agree that the Sinopoli recording with Studer and Domingo is fabulous, one of the best versions of the stereo era.

The best Fliegender Holländer however is Fricsay 1952 with Metternich, Greindl, Windgassen and Kupper - an excellent idiomatic cast and the most exciting Wagner conducting of the century.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00YW5MV0G/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp
 
#33 ·
I think I may have just heard the best Dutchman ever. youtube
1944 Krauss, Hans Hotter, awesome!!!
 
#41 ·
Wagner Challenge update - Favourite MONO DFH

Winner




Wagner
DER FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WWV 63 Live recording
Hermann Uhde
Astrid Varnay
Ludwig Weber
Wolfgang Windgassen
Josef Traxel
Elisabeth Schärtel

Chor und Orchester der Bayreuther Festspiele
Hans Knappertsbusch
Orfeo/Walhall (1955, Remastered Edition)


Honourable mention:



Wagner
DER FLIEGENDE HOLLÄNDER WWV 63 Live recording
Hans Hotter
Astrid Varnay
Sven Nilsson
Set Svanholm
Thomas Haysward
Hertha Glaz

Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Chorus
Fritz Reiner
Sony Classical (1950/2013 Remastered Edition)


First episode of the second and probably most exciting part of the Wagner challenge: the mono recordings. The Holländer mono selection has as much quality and quantity as the Stereo counterpart. Two big let-downs: Keilberth Bayreuth 56 and one of DA's favourites: Sawallisch Bayreuth 59. It's very hard for them (especially Rysanek and London) to confront a Varnay in her peak led by Kna. The singing lacked the punch of Sawallisch on the pit, and Keilberth rushed the score to reveal the weaknesses of Varnay's aging voice. I was quite happy with the Krauss 44 and Fricsay studio recordings.

As an honourable mention, I quite liked the 1950 Met Broadcast conducted by Fritz Reiner. He is fine in the pit, but not as good as Hotter and Varnay together in lustrous voice. Sony is the remaster to get, not the older Naxos. I love how Hotter gives emotion to the Dutchman character and Varnay sings Senta without the vocal issues from late 50s.

My favourite recording of the selection was the Knappertsbusch only evening in Bayreuth 1955. He gives the impulse and pauses that unveil a new Wagner to my ears, apart from an immense chorus, a whole different league. His style benefits Varnay the most. Uhde is an emotional Dutchman too, with more vocal projection than Hotter. Windgassen's Erik is intense and dramatic and Varnay's Senta grows from the Ballad. As the last remark, just that I tell the difference between Orfeo and Walhall, and others, in the tape hiss.


...
3rd: Fricsay RIAS
4th: Kraus BaySO
5th: Schippers Met 60
6th: Sawallisch BFO 59
7th: Keilberth BFO 56
8th: Schüchter NDR 51
 
#44 ·
Do you know if the Knappy '55 has the original or revised redemption ending?
thanks :tiphat:
 
#47 · (Edited)


Listened to this on youtube last night.
Wow, Uhde and Varnay are amazing!
And Knappy really nails the drama.
Good sound too.
Number one now I think. :)

On my wish list.
 
#50 · (Edited)
I now have a respectable collection of 16 Hollanders: Nelsson, Dohnanyi, Bohm, Parry (Chandos sung in English), Fricsay, Klemperer (both studio and live), Minkowski, Sawallisch '66 and Sawallisch '59 (but long for the Sawallisch with Silja), Sinopoli, Solti, Varvisio, Weil, Levine, and Krauss '44.

Make that 17 Hollanders. Just ordered the Konwitschny set! :)

This is probably my second largest collection next to Fidelio!
 
#52 ·
^^

Well, you could sell two or three of those Holländers and then buy the Orfeo Master release of the Knappertsbusch Bayreuth 55. I would settle with the Walhall release but I heard that you care about SQ in mono.

7

One day the complete Philips Wagner Bayreuth Box will be reissued again with all the operas + the Kna Parsifal. Then you'll get the Sawallisch Holländer too (my favourite in Stereo, together with the Dohnányi you spotted earlier)
 
#55 ·
For me, it is also quite of the definitive Dutchman. Karajan can bring out the wind, so to speak, of this piece. Moll is indeed definitive for a kind of role like Daland (his a-bit earlier Gurnemanz, also with Karajan, is the best.) Dunja Vejzovic is not bad in the Ballad. My only complaint is that in the ghost chorus section in Act 3, you can barely hear the chorus onstage, let alone the chorus "offstage", overshadowed by the piccolos and wind effects (cf Karajan's Tristan Act 1 Finale, where the mens' chorus is overshadowed by the brass.) All in all, it seems to be the best Dutchman.
 
#59 · (Edited)
I couldn't disagree more about Karajan's Dutchman. I picked up a CD of highlights, but quickly got rid of it. Karajan's tendency to exaggerate contrasts begins right away with the overemphatic timpani in the overture, followed by the slowest, softest, sleepiest bit from Senta's Ballad ever heard. Dunja Vejzovic was an erratic soprano Karajan used both here and in his Parsifal for reasons I can't fathom, and her Senta shows the same vocal inconsistencies that mar her Kundry and doesn't sound for a moment like a girl in love. Kurt Moll as Daland is fine, but no more "definitive" than, say, Gottlob Frick, who has more character. Van Dam's Dutchman is neatly sung, but microphones can't disguise the fact that his voice is not the real Wagner-hero, bass-baritone thing, and Karajan's thundering orchestra only makes this more obvious. Peter Hoffmann's Erik is, like his Parsifal, strained and unimpressive.

Karajan can be relied on to blow the roof off the place at the big moments, if that appeals, but on the whole this impresses me as another overcalculated, overengineered, undersung, late Karajan studio job.
 
#56 ·
What does anybody think of Ricarda Merbeth as Senta? She is on two CD recordings.

On this new CD release I find her to be okay:


But on this release I like her a lot more:


In either case I don't know that she is the best Senta out there, or even in the top tier. I suspect not.
 
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