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Thread: For love of the Baroque...

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Thanks for the Round Tuit!

    And no need to read all the previous thread - I wouldn't want to catch up on 500 plus posts myself. It's just that I remembered the earlier posts shrugging at my darling William Lawes' reputation, which after centuries of neglect is currently riding high.

    Glad you're here now. Always grateful for anyone posting about baroque music on TC in general and this thread in particular. Thank you, all.

    My fiddle teacher, who's an HIP violist and violinist with various baroque ensembles, values William Lawes because, like you, he finds him 'experimental'.
    (So it must be true! But starting so late, I don't know enough about conventional baroque style to know whether or not anything is radical. Still, I'm here to learn, and to celebrate.)

    BaRoQuE RULeth, OkkOkk!

    Which are your particular favourites from William Lawes' oeuvre?
    Your welcome for the round tuit
    I can't say that I have immersed myself in his works, but I was struck when listening to some of his pieces how remarkably individual they were. I quoted some examples in my above post. I'm very diverse in my tastes, it makes it difficult to 'cover' all the composers I esteem highly with any degree of justice. But I love the consort music, this puts William Lawes amongst the greats of the period, really of English composers of any period. I love baroque music also, just as I love classical, romantic, renaissance (and have a strong interest in Byzantine and some S and W Asian styles of music as well). I always enjoy discussing the music I love, so thanks right back at you

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  3. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Yes, well.....!
    Reminds me of something Beethoven might've done....well on a keyboard instrument of a kind
    Last edited by Eusebius12; Sep-09-2018 at 12:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eusebius12 View Post
    This piece is very exploratory, with surprising polyphonic turns and dissonances:



    Just the opening of this has some remarkable harmonies:



    Listen to the entirety of that link if you get the chance. I hope though that some struggling artist gets some youtube dollars out of it.
    Yes I’ve never heard that G minor Fantasia without an organ before. I don’t have that Phantasm recording - I’ve got their Royal Fantasies and organ consorts recording. It’s extraordinary that the whole thing is sitting there on YouTube.

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  7. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    P is for Pachelbel - and for Pedal-Harpsichord...

    Starting this morning my tasting of Pachelbel - the next name in my project of sampling the entire Wiki list of Baroque Composers, see OP - I came across this video of a 'pedal harpsichord', which is a fascinating instrument, and what a sound!
    (Well, the sound is gorgeous till nearly the end - the pedals on their own are a bit kazoo-like. )



    I didn't know they existed. But here's a link to some more information.
    http://www.baroquemusic.org/pedalharpsichord.html

    Has anyone any experience of listening to (or playing) this delightful instrument?
    You didn't seem to get vey far with Pachelbel! Have a listen to this



    and this


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  9. #575
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    You didn't seem to get vey far with Pachelbel! Have a listen to this ...
    You are right. I haven't got far - but I haven't finished yet, not by a long chalk.

    I had only just started on Pachelbel when I was intrigued by the pedal-harpsichord and posted about that - these days I don't always wait till I've finished the composer before posting.

    I wanted to ask about the instrument, and the replies make me glad that I did.

    Thanks very much for the suggestions, Mandryka - I will give them a listen.

    I have amassed a few YouTube bits and pieces, and am also going to look at the videos in the OP (by Lukecash12 ) of the Pachelbel Composer Guest Book -
    Pachelbel anyone?

    One thing I won't bother with is the Canon - though I still love it, despite its ubiquity.

    So here's the only version I'm mentioning - a fun video, Canon on a Cannon, my fiddle teacher's quartet in Sparrow's Nest Park, Lowestoft. (He's the one with the ponytail, now sadly snipped off. )

    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-09-2018 at 19:44.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  11. #576
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post

    Lovely Pachelbel organ by the venerable Mr. Rübsam. Of all the Baroque composers I’ve heard, I feel that Pachelbel is one of the warmest, most lyrical, sincere, and singing. There’s a wonderful flow to his music, a certain pleasing simplicity, and it’s no wonder that his Canon became famous.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; Sep-10-2018 at 08:11.
    "That's all Folks!"

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    Senior Member Ariasexta's Avatar
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    Some magazin critics emphasize the historical value over musical value of the baroque music, I must say these people have no basic respect for music as a form of art, and they belong to people who pretend to be erudite by compounding what is immediately apparent to them, never really think for a moment by their own.

    Historical value of baroque music is an undoubted fact, but what exactly is the historical value of a piece of music? To treat it as an artefact? it can be no more ignorant !! An artefact is the testament of a piece of history by leaving out whatever artistic value of it, we all know it. But if it is a also a piece of art besides being a testament to history, the artistic value is never to be overshadowed by its whatever historical value!! Art is art, not because it has historical value. Maybe you do not have to love a piece of art, at least be considerate that some other love it. No body criticizes a baroque painting, does not mean everyone love it the same much, because it is apparently nobody can replicate its value no matter how close it can be remade, we need the same respect for period music.

    I am still very angry about the comment conjuring that the work has historical value more than musical value in a review.
    Last edited by Ariasexta; Sep-10-2018 at 07:53.

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    Baroque is full of wonders. Most of the composers were not full of themselves -- even Handel had a certain humility before God -- and the music was not really about them, the ups and downs of their personal lives unlike during the later period of Romanticism. It was more about discovering the immutable laws of nature ( The music of the spheres! ) and composing along certain principles of harmony, rhythm, and counterpoint. I still can’t imagine anyone with greater knowledge of the principles of harmony and counterpoint than Bach—and it’s been almost 300 years. He was admired and studied.

    Baroque seems far more related to absolute music. There’s something impersonal about it that can be pleasing and beneficial. Since the llistener is not being burdened with the personal concerns of the composer, it can be refreshing not knowing. Most of the works are beautifully organized and constructed. There’s craft and logic and a certain sense of rightness in the expression of their ideas.

    Perhaps the problem that some have with it is that it seems to be too identified with a stuffy, stiff and formal world that no longer exists of a spoiled aristocracy and social privilege... It no longer seems connected or relevant to the modern world. I’d say that its relevance most likely depends on the spirit of how it’s played. Imaginative Baroque with abandon... and why can’t more harpsichords sound as ravishing as this one? It’s beautiful!—

    Last edited by Larkenfield; Sep-10-2018 at 20:23.
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    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkenfield View Post
    Baroque is full of wonders. Most of the composers were not full of themselves -- even Handel had a certain humility before God -- and the music is not really about them, the ups and downs of their personal lives. It was more about discovering the certain laws of nature and composing along certain wonderful principles of harmony, rhythm, and counterpoint. It’s far more related to being absolute music because there’s a certain quality of being impersonal and that the music is not necessarily representing the composer’s personal feelings at that time. In other words, the listener is not being burdened with the personal circumstances of the composer’s life. It can be refreshing not knowing. Most of the works are beautifully organized and constructed. There’s craft and logic and a sense of proportion in the expression of their ideas. Perhaps the problem that some people have with it is that it seems to be a reflection of the old age of aristocracy and social privilege. Maybe that’s true but maybe we were a part of that in a past life.
    Excellent post!

    (PS - And even if we weren't part of it in a past life, it informs who we are now. Who'd want to reject Shakespeare's art because he had to tug the forelock to the Lord Chamberlain? )
    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-10-2018 at 08:41.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  18. #580
    Senior Member Gallus's Avatar
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    I've been utterly charmed by this clever little aria of Handel's



    What's miraculous is how Handel was able to compose dozens upon dozens of such equally lovely songs (the ones he didn't steal, at least...).

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  20. #581
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
    I've been utterly charmed by this clever little aria of Handel's



    (Händel - Nasconde l´ usignol - Simone Kermes - Soprano - from the opera "Deidamia" - in case the video disappears.)

    ....
    Have just listened - and it is indeed lovely. Thanks for sharing!
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  22. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariasexta View Post
    Some magazin critics emphasize the historical value over musical value of the baroque music, I must say these people have no basic respect for music as a form of art, and they belong to people who pretend to be erudite by compounding what is immediately apparent to them, never really think for a moment by their own.

    Historical value of baroque music is an undoubted fact, but what exactly is the historical value of a piece of music? To treat it as an artefact? it can be no more ignorant !! An artefact is the testament of a piece of history by leaving out whatever artistic value of it, we all know it. But if it is a also a piece of art besides being a testament to history, the artistic value is never to be overshadowed by its whatever historical value!! Art is art, not because it has historical value. Maybe you do not have to love a piece of art, at least be considerate that some other love it. No body criticizes a baroque painting, does not mean everyone love it the same much, because it is apparently nobody can replicate its value no matter how close it can be remade, we need the same respect for period music.

    I am still very angry about the comment conjuring that the work has historical value more than musical value in a review.
    The critic's comment says more about him and his limited musical perception in regards to baroque music than anything about baroque music at all.
    It is regrettable then, that such opinions are touted as objective facts when they are nothing of the sort. Also, such comments about any art form and music are very common. Sometimes that is because of certain agendas, and also lack of understanding.

    If he were not a critic but a creative it would be more interesting to observe the end result of his beliefs in the form of art or music he would have produced, some music styles were sort of reactive, there a composers who rejected the past and composed based on the parameters set according to that belief, others created new styles but in the way that accepted and incorporated past achievements into modern work.. but as it is he's just making unproductive and tiresome waves in a teacup in my view.
    Last edited by Marinera; Sep-12-2018 at 11:36.

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  24. #583
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    I'm currently on a real early 17th century Italian/Venetian kick. Lots of Monteverdi and especially Giovanni Gabriel who I find absolutely sensational! I would highly recommend the was two CDs from the excellent Chandos label.
    https://www.chandos.net/products/cat...CHAN%200761#CD
    https://www.chandos.net/products/cat...CHAN%200782#CD

    I'm particulary enjoying those CDs that try and recreate an entire service or event.

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  26. #584
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Going Baroque...

    Dubravka Tomsic, one of my favorite "Scarlattiers"...
    I used to put this exquisite jewel on replay for hours...
    Such beautiful harmonic logic and wealth of feeling...

    Last edited by Larkenfield; Sep-13-2018 at 07:33.
    "That's all Folks!"

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    Baroque but not broken...

    Lively performance by the noble Neville Marriner of Corelli's famous Concerto Grosso No. 2 — another composer with a beautiful sense of harmonic tension and release ("harmonic suspensions"), perfect structural balance, and cheer. Have always loved his graceful refinement and energy... He seems in tune with the invisible forces of the universe and every musical question has an answer... Nothing is left hanging in the air unresolved.

    Last edited by Larkenfield; Sep-13-2018 at 07:23.
    "That's all Folks!"

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