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Thread: For love of the Baroque...

  1. #616
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    I cannot begin to tell you how bitterly I regret not having named my thread "Atonal, dodecaphonic, serial, and Renaissance compositions - One Tune A Day" so that I would have had a more appropriate home for this post rather than having to crash Ingélou's Baroque thread... but I didn't and so I can't and thus here I am...

    Renaissance... Baroque... Like there's a difference, eh? -

    I'm looking forward to the release of this set -

    Attachment 108280

    "Blue Heron releases a 5-CD boxed set of world premiere recordings of pre-Reformation English polyphony, from the largest extant source of such music, the Peterhouse Partbooks, which were copied in Oxford for Canterbury Cathedral in 1540 and now reside at Peterhouse, Cambridge.

    The source had been badly neglected for centuries because of the loss of the tenor partbook, as well as a number of pages from the treble book, sometime in the 17th century. Nick Sandon, who has dedicated much of his professional life to the Peterhouse partbooks, has restored the missing parts.

    This set, containing nearly five and a half hours of previously 'lost' music, is a must-have for any serious collector of early choral recordings. It includes all the music from the five Peterhouse CDs Blue Heron released between 2010 and 2017, together with a substantial unified booklet containing new and updated notes on the music by Nick Sandon and Scott Metcalfe.

    Writing in Gramophone, Fabrice Fitch called the fifth CD 'one of the discoveries of the year'; it was selected both as an Editor’s Choice and a Gramophone Critic’s Choice for 2017."

    Two samples -

    Ave Maria dive matris Anne by Hugh Aston (c.1485-c.1558) -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5x...vKPitxUtv-nQmy

    Magnificat by Robert Jones (fl. 1520-35) -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy3W...vKPitxUtv-nQmy
    Last edited by Sydney Nova Scotia; Sep-25-2018 at 15:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney Nova Scotia View Post
    I cannot begin to tell you how bitterly I regret not having named my thread "Atonal, dodecaphonic, serial, and Renaissance compositions - One Tune A Day" so that I would have had a more appropriate home for this post rather than having to crash Ingélou's Baroque thread... but I didn't and so I can't and thus here I am...

    Renaissance... Baroque... Like there's a difference, eh? -

    I'm looking forward to the release of this set -

    Attachment 108280

    "Blue Heron releases a 5-CD boxed set of world premiere recordings of pre-Reformation English polyphony, from the largest extant source of such music, the Peterhouse Partbooks, which were copied in Oxford for Canterbury Cathedral in 1540 and now reside at Peterhouse, Cambridge.

    The source had been badly neglected for centuries because of the loss of the tenor partbook, as well as a number of pages from the treble book, sometime in the 17th century. Nick Sandon, who has dedicated much of his professional life to the Peterhouse partbooks, has restored the missing parts.

    This set, containing nearly five and a half hours of previously 'lost' music, is a must-have for any serious collector of early choral recordings. It includes all the music from the five Peterhouse CDs Blue Heron released between 2010 and 2017, together with a substantial unified booklet containing new and updated notes on the music by Nick Sandon and Scott Metcalfe.

    Writing in Gramophone, Fabrice Fitch called the fifth CD 'one of the discoveries of the year'; it was selected both as an Editor’s Choice and a Gramophone Critic’s Choice for 2017."

    Two samples -

    Ave Maria dive matris Anne by Hugh Aston (c.1485-c.1558) -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5x...vKPitxUtv-nQmy

    Magnificat by Robert Jones (fl. 1520-35) -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy3W...vKPitxUtv-nQmy
    I enjoyed the first CD but the other four have not yet caught my imagination. I mention this not necessarily as a reflection on the music or the performances, it's just a brute fact. If you find anything really exciting in there -- by Ludford or anyone else -- please say and I'll be very glad to relisten.

    I think, but I haven't checked so I could be wrong, that the two clips from youtube you found are from the first CD, the one I enjoyed.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Sep-25-2018 at 15:27.

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  5. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I enjoyed the first CD but the other four have not yet caught my imagination. I mention this not necessarily as a reflection on the music or the performances, it's just a brute fact. If you find anything really exciting in there -- by Ludford or anyone else -- please say and I'll be very glad to relisten.

    I think, but I haven't checked so I could be wrong, that the two clips from youtube you found are from the first CD, the one I enjoyed.
    You're right - they are tracks one and two of the first cd.

    I can't comment on anything other than the first two discs which I quite enjoyed but my sentiments may or may not echo yours after listening to discs three through five - we'll have to wait and see.

    I'll post a follow-up provided Ingélou allows me back onto the thread after having crashed it which could have been avoided if she had had the foresight to name the thread "For love of the Renaissance... and Baroque"... Like there's a difference, eh?
    Last edited by Sydney Nova Scotia; Sep-25-2018 at 15:47.

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    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney Nova Scotia View Post
    ...

    I'll post a follow-up provided Ingélou allows me back onto the thread after having crashed it which could have been avoided if she had had the foresight to name the thread "For love of the Renaissance... and Baroque"... Like there's a difference, eh?

    I think it's generally accepted that there is a difference - that 'Renaissance' and 'Baroque' are convenient labels that do denote identifiably different styles of music, though obviously there is an overlap.

    The dates of 'Baroque music' are usually set between 1600 and 1760, and that's the basis on which I started the thread - calling it 'For love of the baroque' because that's my motive in undertaking a project of listening to all the composers on the Wiki list.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baroque_composers

    I am happy for you to post the occasional renaissance piece on here if you like, but I really wouldn't want you to change the nature of the thread.

    So you may find it more convenient to start your own thread* - to which I'd happily contribute - or else you could post on one of the other TC threads devoted to the earlier music - this one, for example.
    Medieval and Renaissance Music

    *(There is a separate list for renaissance composers on Wikipedia, if it's any help.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ance_composers)
    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-25-2018 at 18:28. Reason: cutting the cackle
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Thanks for your interesting post.

    I hope to listen to this music in due course, and will reread your reviews before sampling - no, maybe afterwards to compare my own response.

    Just to clarify though - Ash Wednesday isn't the day before Maundy Thursday as it occurs at the start of Lent, not during Holy Week. The day before Maundy or Holy Thursday in Holy Week is traditionally called Spy Wednesday, as it is the day on which Judas sold Jesus to the High Priests.

    I'll admit, as a Catholic convert, I thought Spy Wednesday sounded a bit scary when I first heard it!
    Good catch/correction. I should have heeded Shaq’s tweet.

    Unfortunately, it’s too late for me to edit my post and add a correction, so should there be a lot of Baroque music-loving Catholics with black splotches on their foreheads come next Spy Wednesday, you’ll know whom to blame.

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  11. #621
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirge View Post
    Good catch/correction. I should have heeded Shaq’s tweet.

    Unfortunately, it’s too late for me to edit my post and add a correction, so should there be a lot of Baroque music-loving Catholics with black splotches on their foreheads come next Spy Wednesday, you’ll know whom to blame.
    It could look rather sinister - the 'black spot' preparing them for spy action!
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  13. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    incidentally, I studied this a couple of days ago because of Zelenka and his Responsoria pro hebdomada sancta. It is exactly the same as Couperin, ie music for the 3 days of the Holy week (responsoriia, matins etc). You can read about it here
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respon..._for_Holy_Week
    I even followed the Latin text in Zelenka's Responsoria. (I studied some basic Latin at school, so I can understand it a little)

    and I also tried to read the Book of Lamentations by the Prophet Jeremiah. Man, these ancient Jews were primitive savages and their Jehova a petty minded cruel and jalous God. The whole Old Testament is full of wars, murder, torture, eyes gouging, thumb cutting, female and male circumcision. A fascinating historic reading.
    If you want to hear Lamentation settings with more of a primitive bent/Old Testament flavor, try Ginastera’s Jeremiæ Prophetæ Lamentationes (1946):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvFN...ISJCRvE0niKRlY

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  15. #623
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    OP Project - Progress.

    Just for my own convenience, here's my list of the baroque composers I've listened to so far from the Wiki list, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baroque_composers, with the 'extras', the non-list composers, marked in red.

    1. Jacopo Peri
    2. Giulio Cacchini
    3. Francesca Cacchini

    4. Sweelinck
    5. Monteverdi
    6. Allegri
    7. Frescobaldi
    8. Schutz
    9. Scheidt
    10. Cavalli
    11. William Lawes
    12. Henry Lawes
    13. John Jenkins
    14. John Ward

    15. Bertali
    16. Carissimi
    17. Froberger
    18. Barbara Strozzi
    19.Schmelzer
    20. D'Anglebert
    21. Lully
    22. Uccellini
    23. Charpentier
    24. Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre
    25. Buxtehude
    26. Biber
    27. Pachelbel
    28. Corelli - in progress

    and before I go on to the next one on the Wiki list, Marin Marais, I intend to listen to Muffat and then Jean-Fery Rebel.
    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-25-2018 at 19:12.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  17. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    For love of the Baroque, I vow to undertake a delightful project...



    If you love Baroque music - you will know about that sense of connection with all the beauty in the Universe when you listen to it.

    I was idly looking at the Wiki list of baroque composers:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baroque_composers


    I had never heard of the first on the list - Jacopo Peri ((1561-1633) - and at first could find no examples of his work on YouTube. Then I looked up his Wiki biography and located this link for his opera Euridice:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNIv0gQMLQA

    I started to listen - and a wonderful voice spoke to me out of the past, saying 'I was once alive, like you, and now I reach out to you from Eternity, your destination too...'

    Then I thought that I haven't seen much on TC lately about the Beauties of the Baroque.

    I am going to try and listen to items from the Wiki list in chronological order and write about my experiences, and I would love it if you, dear reader & Baroque-Lover, could post your listening experiences using composers from the list, though not necessarily in order - unless you want to.

    You might also like to highlight baroque composers who have somehow not appeared on the list, if any there be.

    I invite you also - or as an alternative - to post on this thread any new discoveries you have made, and/or any observations on baroque music that occur to you.

    Just wondering now whether to change the thread title to Baroque Epiphanies -
    but no, Amor Vincit Omnia!
    And just to reflect on my OP - there are comparatively few TC members who've posted on this thread, but the quality is high.

    There have been many interesting observations on the list-composers, many posts which share 'incidental' listenings to baroque music, and many posts discussing issues relevant to baroque music.

    Thank you for all these Epiphanies, made 'for love of the baroque'.

    Incredibly, it isn't yet a year since I started this thread.

    It feels much longer, because in December last year, I lost my beautiful and loving mother - she was 97. Here's a photo from my childhood - Mum with my little bro at her favourite place, the North York Moors.

    Mum on moors with Alan.jpg



    I think it will be a very long time before I come to terms with my loss.
    But in the meantime, there is music...
    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-25-2018 at 20:57. Reason: wanted to explain what this thread means to me
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  19. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney Nova Scotia View Post
    ... Renaissance... and Baroque"... Like there's a difference, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydney Nova Scotia View Post
    Renaissance... Baroque... Like there's a difference, eh? -
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    I think it's generally accepted that there is a difference - that 'Renaissance' and 'Baroque' are convenient labels that do denote identifiably different styles of music, though obviously there is an overlap.
    I reckon that jocularity apparently doesn't translate well from Canadian to English even though it is my understanding that we both speak the same language. It's odd but I was under the impression that the "two nations divided by a common language" was the UK and the US not the UK and Canada...

    Onward... Those who were intrigued by Corelli may find this title to be of interest -

    Attachment 108303

    released by Collegium Musicum 90 and which features compositions written by three of Corelli's pupils - Antonio Montanari, Giovanni Mossi, and Giuseppe Valentini.

    "The album reveals Corelli’s influence, from a style of execution that was of vital importance to the development of violin playing to a compositional manner that, in establishing the pre-eminence of the violin, proved central to the development of the modern genres of sonata and concerto."

    You can listen to each of the album's 25 tracks here -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgCA...8QpP77AP-6lYck

    which leads you to - Valentini's Concerto grosso in A Minor, Op. 7 No. 11 (Ed. R. Maunder) : I. Largo · Simon Standage

    at the top right of the page are links which lead to the other 24 tracks.

    My personal favourite is Montanari's Violin Concerto in D Minor, Op. 1 No. 2 -

    I. Presto - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoRv...8QpP77AP-6lYck

    II. Allegro - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3xX...8QpP77AP-6lYck

    III. Adagio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHdk...6lYck&index=20

    IV. Allegro - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLnW...8QpP77AP-6lYck

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  21. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    OP Project - Progress.

    Just for my own convenience, here's my list of the baroque composers I've listened to so far from the Wiki list, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baroque_composers, with the 'extras', the non-list composers, marked in red.

    1. Jacopo Peri
    2. Giulio Cacchini
    3. Francesca Cacchini

    4. Sweelinck
    5. Monteverdi
    6. Allegri
    7. Frescobaldi
    8. Schutz
    9. Scheidt
    10. Cavalli
    11. William Lawes
    12. Henry Lawes
    13. John Jenkins
    14. John Ward

    15. Bertali
    16. Carissimi
    17. Froberger
    18. Barbara Strozzi
    19.Schmelzer
    20. D'Anglebert
    21. Lully
    22. Uccellini
    23. Charpentier
    24. Elisabeth Jacquet de la Guerre
    25. Buxtehude
    26. Biber
    27. Pachelbel
    28. Corelli - in progress

    and before I go on to the next one on the Wiki list, Marin Marais, I intend to listen to Muffat and then Jean-Fery Rebel.
    It's nice to see a list. I felt certain hat you'd spent some time listening to Giovanni Gabriel but it appears not. Please do listen to him, I think he's absolutely a genius and a real lynchpin around which the Renaissance/baroque turns. He is the absolute master of the Venetian polychoral tradition and despite his fairly short life, 1553?-1612, he was incredibly active and important in developing the future (Schutz was a pupil of his). His choral and organ works are simply breathtaking.

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  23. #627
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    It's nice to see a list. I felt certain hat you'd spent some time listening to Giovanni Gabriel but it appears not. Please do listen to him, I think he's absolutely a genius and a real lynchpin around which the Renaissance/baroque turns. He is the absolute master of the Venetian polychoral tradition and despite his fairly short life, 1553?-1612, he was incredibly active and important in developing the future (Schutz was a pupil of his). His choral and organ works are simply breathtaking.
    Thank you - I'll definitely take time to listen!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    (I had to make up the list by scrolling through the thread, which is a bit chancy, so I may have listened to a piece by Giovanni Gabriel at some point - the trouble is, the composers are all fab when I listen to them, but then my codgerette memory merges them all into each other. Hence the usefulness of posting, and I think now that I'd better start a notebook list too.
    But apart from the hours of wonderful music and great enjoyment, I think my brain is beginning to get more idea about musical development, so it's all worth while. )

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I was just posting that it was really Giovanni Gabrieli, as you point out below, Ras, when suddenly TC went down the swanee again.
    Thanks - and I'd better get this posted now before....
    Last edited by Ingélou; Sep-26-2018 at 20:21.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  25. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Thank you - I'll definitely take time to listen!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    (I had to make up the list by scrolling through the thread, which is a bit chancy, so I may have listened to a piece by Giovanni Gabriel at some point - the trouble is, the composers are all fab when I listen to them, but then my codgerette memory merges them all into each other. Hence the usefulness of posting, and I think now that I'd better start a notebook list too.
    But apart from the hours of wonderful music and great enjoyment, I think my brain is beginning to get more idea about musical development, so it's all worth while. )
    I think the composer classical yorkist is thinking about is GIOVANNI GABRIELI the nephew of Andrea Garbrieli.
    "I only have a hunch in what I've become expert." - Leonard Cohen

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    This is my favorite G. Gabrieli album:

    61I9S3Z0QkL._AC_US320_QL65_.jpg

    Now, I will try not to say more about Renaissance music on your Baroque thread.

    BTW : I thought I was serious about Baroque - Until I saw this thread - You guys are real first class Baroque afacinados!!!

    Sorry, I made two posts - I hit the post button by accident.
    "I only have a hunch in what I've become expert." - Leonard Cohen

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  29. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ras View Post
    I think the composer classical yorkist is thinking about is GIOVANNI GABRIELI the nephew of Andrea Garbrieli.
    Yeah my fat fingers mis-typed. Giovanni Gabrieli. He worked in Munich with Lassus, was organist and maestro di capella at St Marks in Venice and also served at San Rocco. He was succeeded at St Marks by Monteverdi. I like his Uncle but the nephew is the master.

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