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Thread: For love of the Baroque...

  1. #61
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplets View Post
    When did Composers start to have a sort of self awareness that they were starting a new period in music? Most of these designations are retrospective, particularly in the transition from Renaissance to Baroque. I doubt that someone like Monteverdi
    Woke up one morning and decided he was going to evolve from Renaissance to Baroque.
    Otoh, in the Romantic era, one sees Composers such as Berlioz, Liszt and Wagner quite consciously announce they were seeking new paths and (I think) even referring to themselves as Romanticists. Closer to our time Modern Composers can be very self conscious about their style de hour. Stravinsky changed his about as often as he changed his underwear, going to neo classicism, Serialism, and then when he needed more money he would change the triangle part of Petrouchka, recopywright it and become a bitonalist again for a week.
    Composers such as C.P.E. Bach or Haydn were striving after originality but weren’t labeling themselves rococo or High Classicist.
    Did Schubert and Beethoven play with Legos in a Viennese coffee house and decide to build a bridge together from Classicism to Romanticism?
    Sorry, Ingelou, didn’t mean to hijack your thread. My point, if I have one (?), is that using labels to categorize and pigeon hole Composers is a relatively recent phenomenon. Or is it?
    I have no idea.
    I am just using the 'baroque' label because it's convenient, although of course at the boundary lines there is a lot of music that would fit into 'renaissance' or 'classical' or whatever.

    However, I don't think one can rule out the idea that Monteverdi or any other baroque composer wasn't aware that he was doing something new. The rush by Giulio Cacchini to publish what we now think of as 'the first opera' - followed by Peri getting his version out and claiming it as anterior - seems to show that they wanted to be ahead of the game. People who claim to be doing something new are just 'setting a fashion' and fashion is probably as old as the caveman who wore his fur wrap in a new way.

    When you look at artists like Bach, Beethoven, Shakespeare, Wordsworth - they were conscious of their talents and capabilities.

    Don't feel you are 'hijacking' the thread, Triplets - I started it to keep baroque music as a centre of interest on Talk Classical and am very pleased to have opinions and epiphanies on here, as well as my inane witterings about what I'm listening to from The List.
    Last edited by Ingélou; Oct-27-2017 at 11:26.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  3. #62
    Sr. Moderator Taggart's Avatar
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    Look at the Florentine Camerata in the 1580s, they were a groups of poets artists and musicians who were fed up with the overuse of polyphony at the expense of intelligibility. They were harking back to the Greek roots of drama and their discussions led to the development of the stile recitativo and Opera as we know it.

    OK not exactly waking up and saying we are now Baroque, but a clear movement away from one style of music (and drama) to another.
    Music begins where words leave off. Music expresses the inexpressible.

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post

    I'm now going to take some time out form The List to listen to the Bach links posted by CountenanceAnglaise in posts #51 and #53, above.

    (Well, maybe not right at this moment. Fiddle practice calls!)
    I'm gonna sound like a real grump here but those Bach links are played on piano and I'm one of those listeners that doesn't like Bach on piano. I think Bach's keyboard works are better experienced on organ or harpsichord than piano.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post




    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I am limiting myself to YouTube





    Koopman is very well recorded and his harpsichord sounds sweet and subtle, I think the engineers have done a better job for him than they did for Wilson. This is lost in the YouTube transfer.

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  9. #65
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    I'm gonna sound like a real grump here but those Bach links are played on piano and I'm one of those listeners that doesn't like Bach on piano. I think Bach's keyboard works are better experienced on organ or harpsichord than piano.
    Then after my fiddle practice I shall first listen to the piano pieces, and then look for versions of the same pieces on organ or harpsichord. I am here to listen and learn, and to delight in listening and learning. Thanks for all your contributions to this thread, classical yorkist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Koopman is very well recorded and his harpsichord sounds sweet and subtle, I think the engineers have done a better job for him than they did for Wilson. This is lost in the YouTube transfer.
    Yes, I'm sure it's just my bad ear that can't hear what's wrong with the Koopman recording. I love the actual music, though, and some time in the future I will try and buy a cd of Sweelinck, but will take a lot of thought about it. Thank you for all your contributions to this thread, Mandryka.

    PS - And carry on posting, y'all!
    Last edited by Ingélou; Oct-27-2017 at 11:44.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  11. #66
    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    J.S. Bach BWV 682

    I have been listening to this often lately, I find it so unique. Another excellent version of this piece is the one performed by Hans Fagius on the Complete Edition/Brilliant Classics. Anyone else know this work or have any favorite performances?


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  13. #67
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    I'm always posting this link,so apologies to all who've seen it before, but if you love harpsichord, and I do, then:

    http://www.saladelcembalo.org/index.htm

    and head to the All The Music section and feast on the wonders.

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  15. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    I'm gonna sound like a real grump here but those Bach links are played on piano and I'm one of those listeners that doesn't like Bach on piano. I think Bach's keyboard works are better experienced on organ or harpsichord than piano.
    I absolutely get that!! Lots of people do prefer it on harpsichord, and that's great to hear as well. I just think there is a case for the piano and Brendel is one of the M-E-N. Not a perfect pianist - plenty of slips - but I love his playing and he's such an adorable man with a glint in his eye and great sense of humour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    I'm always posting this link,so apologies to all who've seen it before, but if you love harpsichord, and I do, then:

    http://www.saladelcembalo.org/index.htm

    and head to the All The Music section and feast on the wonders.
    This is absolutely terrific, thank you. I'm emailing it to my musical friends now!!

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  19. #70
    Senior Member ArtMusic's Avatar
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    ArtMusic highly recommends this 2 CD set if you love the sound of the Baroque oboe. This instrument has so much vocal qualities that even the Classical oboe lacks. Performed by Paul Dombrecht on an oboe based on a 1720 instrument.

    "You must have no dependence on your own genius. If you have great talents, industry will improve them; if you have but moderate abilities, industry will supply their deficiency." Sir Joshua Reynolds, PRA, FRS, FRSA (1723 - 1792)

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  21. #71
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    Listen to the keyboard music of this planetary-sized musical brain!! Bach on the piano; Brendel in the driver's seat. "The Italian Concerto". JS Bach was really the musical 'killer App" (a term coined by Professor Niall Ferguson - yet another huge intellect I really admire!):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz6P5r3fs8g&t=267

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  23. #72
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    I'm gonna sound like a real grump here but those Bach links are played on piano and I'm one of those listeners that doesn't like Bach on piano. I think Bach's keyboard works are better experienced on organ or harpsichord than piano.
    Quote Originally Posted by CountenanceAnglaise View Post
    I absolutely get that!! Lots of people do prefer it on harpsichord, and that's great to hear as well. I just think there is a case for the piano and Brendel is one of the M-E-N. Not a perfect pianist - plenty of slips - but I love his playing and he's such an adorable man with a glint in his eye and great sense of humour.
    Aha - this is a thread for self-discovery.

    I find that I'm with classical yorkist on this one: someone who prefers baroque music played on the organ or harpsichord rather than on the piano.
    I wasn't sure. Taggart used to play a lot of Glenn Gould in the car when he was preparing for his grade 6 and grade 7 piano exams, and I enjoyed it, in a scenery-skimming-by sort of way.

    But when it comes to sitting and listening more carefully in my study-bedroom - I find the unemphatic gentleness of the sound just a trifle underwhelming. Not that that proves anything - a case of pearls before swine, no doubt.

    Taggart, of course, as a pianist thinks differently. I must call up the corridor and ask him what he thinks of Brendel.

    But anyway, I still enjoyed listening to the pieces you posted, CountenanceAnglaise.
    Thank you.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    And now - back to The List & Sweelinck.
    Wishing everyone on TC a good weekend.
    Last edited by Ingélou; Oct-28-2017 at 08:33.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

  24. #73
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    My pleasure, ma'am. Totally agree that harpsichord and organ for baroque is marvellous. What about this: Rameau played by Scott Ross. Just a taste of one of the pieces. Tumultuous, knotty and incredible. Another EXTRAORDINARY komponist!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-JD5Kv2js0

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  26. #74
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountenanceAnglaise View Post
    My pleasure, ma'am. Totally agree that harpsichord and organ for baroque is marvellous. What about this: Rameau played by Scott Ross. Just a taste of one of the pieces. Tumultuous, knotty and incredible. Another EXTRAORDINARY komponist!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-JD5Kv2js0
    Lovely!
    ~~~~~~~~~

    PS - Part of the music reminded me of something else - Boccherini's Fandango. ???
    Last edited by Ingélou; Oct-28-2017 at 09:18.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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    This is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED but spoiler alert; it is Bach on piano. I have the recording being made here with David Fray. (We have a large house with husband and wife at either end too - husband a political tragic and reader of such!!) The barbeque is burning; I have to go!!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV_L...BVPZ0&index=33

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