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Thread: For love of the Baroque...

  1. #91
    Senior Member Joe B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    We listened to this in the car last night - wow! I loved every last ripple and jangle.
    There was such a lot of interest, and so much variation.
    Bach & Trevor Pinnock = a match made in = Guy can write, Guy can play!

    This IS a fabulous CD. And you're right about Pinnock and Bach. I'm sure J.S. was all smiles when this was recorded.
    I love music. I want music. I need music.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICK RIEKERT View Post
    I have, Mandryka. It's a lovely sounding disc and as usual Glen Wilson adorns everything he touches. Catalina Vicens is also a talented harpsichordist who specializes in this music. She released a superb recording earlier this year called "Il Cembalo di Partenope". You can hear her on YouTube. Cavazzoni is another "Divino" who excelled at the ricercar, Francesco da Milano being the other. Knowing your previous, mostly unfelicitous, approaches to the music of Adrian Willaert, I'm curious to know your thoughts on his Ricercar XIV which Wilson calls "a masterpiece beyond all praise".
    Willaert's Ricercar xiv: I think he does a really stalwart job making the counterpoint interesting on a harpsichord. I just wish that Wilson was more colourful, and varied his attack a bit more, and his portato, rather than relying so much on rubato and the changes of rhythms in the music. Sometimes in this Willaert ricercar, the way he plays the chords which punctuate the phrases and mark the pulse annoys me, it's as if he almost systematically stresses the chords, hammers them home (I exaggerate here for want of not being able to find the right words) He's good in the "joyous melodies" at the end.

    I enjoyed the Cavazzoni on Wilson's CD more than the Willaert. I guess I'm a Willaertphobe. I nearly bought Rifkin's recording on your recommendation years ago, but the LP got lost somewhere between the US and the UK.

    There's a performance of the ricercar where the music is shared out between harpsichord and organ on Stradivarius, in their complete Willaert. I don't know if it compromises the integrity of the music too much.

    I've been listening to Stembridge's Frescobaldi - and his way of playing there has made me critical of Wilson's here - the way Stembridge varies his touch, the liaison between the notes, is really impressive. I want more soul!
    Last edited by Mandryka; Oct-29-2017 at 18:22.

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  5. #93
    Senior Member RICK RIEKERT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Sometimes in this Willaert ricercar, the way he plays the chords which punctuate the phrases and mark the pulse annoys me, it's as if he almost systematically stresses the chords, hammers them home
    Yes, I can understand how that might not be to your taste. For a lighter, perhaps more graceful, rendition without so much as a hint of hammering, give Roberto Loreggian on spinetta a listen. I shan't vouch for his soulfullness, however.


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    Senior Member tdc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICK RIEKERT View Post
    In his book "The Musical Dialogue" Harnoncourt says that the main theme for the opening chorus of the St. Matthew Passion is a direct quote from Marais' Tombeau. I think anyone with a working pair of ears would have to agree.
    After reading this and listening to the two pieces I can certainly hear the similarity, but I would not have guessed without you pointing this out. The drone effect Bach adds to the opening chorus of the St. Matthew Passion completely changes the character of the melody in my opinion and creates a heightened sense of tension and urgency. In contrast the Marais sounds laid-back, mournful and reflective.

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    I've never really investigated the Ricercar sufficiently to get a handle on it. One of our very senior members of our music group is always talking about Ricercar and, having also read the comments here and heard examples, I feel compelled to get to work on it!
    Last edited by CountenanceAnglaise; Oct-30-2017 at 00:42. Reason: Spelling!!

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  11. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICK RIEKERT View Post
    Yes, I can understand how that might not be to your taste. For a lighter, perhaps more graceful, rendition without so much as a hint of hammering, give Roberto Loreggian on spinetta a listen. I shan't vouch for his soulfullness, however.

    Nice performancce, but the music is static and gets nowhere.

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    Senior Member Joe B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    We listened to this in the car last night - wow! I loved every last ripple and jangle.
    There was such a lot of interest, and so much variation.
    Bach & Trevor Pinnock = a match made in = Guy can write, Guy can play!

    Took my wife to a doctor's appointment an hour away this morning, and taking your lead we listened to this on the way there. Excellent.
    I love music. I want music. I need music.

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  15. #98
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    Took my wife to a doctor's appointment an hour away this morning, and taking your lead we listened to this on the way there. Excellent.
    Hope the appointment went well.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Senior Member Joe B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post
    Hope the appointment went well.
    She's almost home free. Started 12/16/16 (10 days in the hospital), then in the hospital from 2/6/17 until 5/27/17 with four surgeries. This Thursday may be the last follow up appointment with the second surgeon. We both need this to be done and finished. Life has been rather strange this last year.
    I love music. I want music. I need music.

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  19. #100
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    Hope this is indeed the end of all your wife's health problems, and you can both relax and enjoy life without worry.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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    Senior Member Mowgli's Avatar
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    Thanks for starting this thread Ingélou.

    I only recently started adventuring pre-1856.
    I'm glad that it's not 5 million versions of The Four Seasons (I like t4S but one is enough).

    Pianos are great for piano music.
    I have no need to hear this done on piano.

    Last edited by Mowgli; Oct-30-2017 at 23:15.

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  23. #102
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    My random, mad voyage through baroque music continues apace. I sometimes think I should be more methodical in my listening as I find myself lurching from 1600 to 1720, from partita to opera to cantata & from Monteverdi to Bach and back. I'll never gain some kind of overview, all I know is I love it.
    Anyway, my latest find is this website: http://allofbach.com/en/

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  25. #103
    Senior Member Ingélou's Avatar
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    I listened to this choral music by Sweelinck yesterday:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul91q549_kI

    It was really beautiful. A heavenly sound. There are some more parts to it on YouTube, which I will get on to by and by.

    At present I'm flitting about trying out some of his organ music. I started with this one:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO21eozat6Y

    But I gave up after a few minutes because there seemed to be a lot of clacking going on in the background. Is it meant to be there, as part of the charm of an old organ cranking away - or is somebody accompanying the music on the bones or spoons, à la Irish pub session?
    Oh gosh, I'm so ignorant! Anyway, it got on my nerves, so now I'm listening to this, which I like very much.



    Classical Yorkist, you said in an earlier post that Sweelinck is a forgotten giant in the history of baroque, the wellspring from which so much later music flows.

    I certainly do think that he produced wonderful music. Why was he forgotten? Was it just because Bach's music obliterated his memory, or is it that people view him as 'solid' rather than inspiring?
    This seems to be a view expressed in the TC composer guestbook:

    Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck

    Here the opening post by Clavichorder talks of Sweelinck's 'noodly squareness' which I must say is a brilliantly expressive phrase, and I can sort-of see what he means.

    All the same, I have loved what I've listened to. Maybe it is simply that Sweelinck was so prolific that he seems to 'go on for miles' - or is it that he's listened to by people who already know Bach or who have heard of Sweelinck's reputation as a Baroque giant and are, like Clavichorder, disappointed because their expectations were so high?

    Please, if you have time, do tell me what you think, everybody. Thank you.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    PS - When I look at The Composer Guestbook, I see that I posted some appreciative posts - but oh dear, I've forgotten all that I listened to then. I've come to Classical Music too late, as when I was young I had a wonderful memory.

    Alas, no more!!!!
    Last edited by Ingélou; Oct-31-2017 at 12:03.
    ~ Mollie ~
    My fiddle my joy.

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  27. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingélou View Post

    Classical Yorkist, you said in an earlier post that Sweelinck is a forgotten giant in the history of baroque, the wellspring from which so much later music flows.

    I certainly do think that he produced wonderful music. Why was he forgotten? Was it just because Bach's music obliterated his memory, or is it that people view him as 'solid' rather than inspiring?




    Please, if you have time, do tell me what you think, everybody. Thank you.
    What I meant is that apart from the fact that Sweelinck was responsible for some groundbreaking music he was also a teacher and the people he taught, amongst them Scheidt and Scheidermann, were directly responsible for the so called North German Organ School of which JS Bach was a major figure. I don't know if Bach was ever exposed to, or had in his collection, any music by Sweelinck but I personally think he deserves to be better known. There aren't that many cd's out there of Sweelinck and that seems a pity.

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  29. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by classical yorkist View Post
    What I meant is that apart from the fact that Sweelinck was responsible for some groundbreaking music he was also a teacher and the people he taught, amongst them Scheidt and Scheidermann, were directly responsible for the so called North German Organ School of which JS Bach was a major figure. I don't know if Bach was ever exposed to, or had in his collection, any music by Sweelinck but I personally think he deserves to be better known. There aren't that many cd's out there of Sweelinck and that seems a pity.
    Sweelinck has his name up on the side of the walls, alongside all the great composers, at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. Yes, that's pretty impressive.

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