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Thread: Help with a mass/requim

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    Default Help with a mass/requim

    The mass i am thinking of starts of with a man singing very quietly and slowly "gloria in excelsis deo." And really dragging the deo out. The music at this intro is very quite almost acappella.

    Then the whole chorul joins in and it gets very loud and much faster in rythym.

    Then the man is solo again but faster and the sound and music rises.

    I know this is not much to go on be a perfectly accurate description but it really has bothered me for years. I have been trying to figure out which mass/requim it is.

    It has a very Mozart-y feel but I am pretty sure it is not the requiem or the mass in C minor
    Please help me.

    I am tortured.

  2. #2
    Senior Member handlebar's Avatar
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    Well Mozart composed many Masses as did Haydn, who some have found to be very Mozart-like in some works. Perhaps one of the other multitudes of Masses from either one of them.

    Jim

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    Senior Member Margaret's Avatar
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    Just how tortured are you?

    If it really is at the beginning, then I suggest you go to amazon.com and listen to the samples.

    For Haydn I'd start with this:
    The Six Great Masses (68 samples)
    http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Great-Ma...1739586&sr=1-4

    Then move on to this (or just skip the above and dive into this):
    The Complete Mass Edition (148 samples)
    http://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Complete...1739586&sr=1-2

    For Mozart I'd suggest this:
    The Complete Sacred Works (212 samples)
    http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Complet...1739677&sr=1-7

    Each sample is 29 seconds, but they play back to back. So in a few hours you could have your answer.

    Good luck hunting.

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    I'm almost positive this is Poulenc's "Gloria" you're talking about. Check this link out and listen to the first movement very carefully:

    http://www.amazon.com/Poulenc-Gloria...1740950&sr=1-1

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    To me, this sounds like 'Canon' by Pachelbel.
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    To me, this sounds like 'Canon' by Pachelbel.
    Are you sure, Tapkaara? I wasn't aware that Pachelbel's Canon had been arranged to be a choral piece.

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    Are you sure, Tapkaara? I wasn't aware that Pachelbel's Canon had been arranged to be a choral piece.
    Heeeheeeheeeheee...!
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    Heeeheeeheeeheee...!
    Lol...good one, Tapkaara.

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    1. Traditional Latin Masses don’t normally start with the Gloria. They start with the Kyrie, and the Gloria follows on from that. Hence I wonder why goko in the opening post says that the mass starts with the man singing very quietly and slowly "Gloria in excelsis deo."

    2. That aside, as suggested previously it could be an early Mozart Mass, but I am not familiar with them. It is not the Mass in C Minor or the Requiem, which I do know. It could also be a mass by Michael Haydn, of which there are many. It is not a mass by Schubert. Nor is it a Mass by Beethoven. I doubt that the suggestion of Poulenc’s Gloria is correct, as the sample sounds nothing like the description.

    3. Although I am unsure, I suspect the relevant mass is possibly one of Joseph Haydn’s earlier ones (Masses 1-8) rather than any of the later ones (9-14), as this is how he tended to open the Gloria in the former. From my collection, I would guess that the relevant Mass could be:
    Haydn Mass 1a G major (“Missa Rorate coeli desuper”); or

    Haydn Mass 2 in F major (“Missa brevis”); or

    Haydn Mass 7 in B flat major, Missa brevis Sancti Joannis de Deo.
    4. If I had to pick just one I would suggest Haydn Mass 7. Strangely, the Amazon samples referred to earlier do not include this Mass. Further, Amazon samples don’t always start at the beginning of each section. Thus a 30 sec sample of the Gloria is probably some mid-section snippet rather than the opening 30 seconds. There is another CD which does include Mass 7: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Haydn-Nelson.../dp/B00004S57R (see track 14) but this too does not start at the beginning of the Gloria, so it's probably of little use in identifying the work.

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    Senior Member Rasa's Avatar
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    To some people, everything sounds like the Canon in d

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasa View Post
    To some people, everything sounds like the Canon in d
    Especially when that's all you listen to.
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Senior Member Rasa's Avatar
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    So THAT's why I've been identifying everything as fur elize...

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    It is just the gloria part that is composed as described above. That is the part that is stuck in my head.

    Certainly it starts with the Kyre.

    However thank you for pointing it out it wa a bit confusing in my OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goko View Post
    It is just the gloria part that is composed as described above. That is the part that is stuck in my head.

    Certainly it starts with the Kyre.

    However thank you for pointing it out it wa a bit confusing in my OP.
    So it's not "Gloria" by Poulenc? Now I'm confused!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    So it's not "Gloria" by Poulenc? Now I'm confused!
    Poulenc's Gloria doesn't remotely fit the description in the first post. The version I have is by Luba Orgonasova (soprano), Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Mariss Jansons. The opening bars of this work are purely orchestral followed by a three-fold repetition of "Gloria in Excelsis in Deo" by solo bass, then overlaid repeat with baritone, then overlaid repeat with soprano, with orchestral accompaniment, all at moderately fast tempo.

    The description in the opening post is of a solo male voice singing without accompaniment the words "Gloria in excelsis deo", with emphasis on the word "deo".

    As I said previously there is nothing unique about this feature. It is characteristic of some of Joseph Haydn's early masses, and I have already suggested Masses 1, 2 or 7 as possibilities, each of which has this specific feature. Unfortunately, the Amazon samples which were flagged up do not start the Gloria at the beginning so it is not likely to be possible to identify the relevant Mass from that source.

    It could be a relatively obscure early Mozart Mass. The only Mozart Masses I have are K 317, K 427, K 626 but it is not any of these. It could also be a Michael Haydn Mass, one possibility being Missa Sancti Hieronymi (MH 254), which has the relevant characteristic of solo voice introduction with emphasis on "deo".

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