Page 35 of 61 FirstFirst ... 2531323334353637383945 ... LastLast
Results 511 to 525 of 911

Thread: Misogyny on the podium

  1. #511
    Member sharkeysnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    75
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    The whole point which the handful of people driving this thread is denying, is that women are where they are not because of misogyny but because of their natural state of being.

    Women were emancipated at the same time as the Jews, and while the latter immediately caught up in all fields of human accomplishment, the former simply never did, to this very day. There is simply no logical debate: this thread truly proves that ideology cannot be reasoned with.

    You can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences that come with doing so.
    Good lord. What’s next, the biological relationship between nose shape and moral purity? This is completely insane.

  2. Likes Boychev liked this post
  3. #512
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    783
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    This is where we ask: what does 50-50 really mean? does it mean that every music group should be divided 50-50? But nobody really wants that do they? That's the only way to be sure that the world is divided 50-50. And that's the only part I agree with, wrt music performance.

    With certain things though, some traditional unbalance is probably optimal, tested by generations, which I favor over blind equality as long as the optimization is a "moving window" adapting to the here and now...
    off-topic;

    I think they've figured out dark matter. It was axions all along.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2azFOX9P0fc
    Last edited by Luchesi; May-24-2019 at 01:40.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

  4. #513
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    938
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    off-topic;

    I think they've figured out dark matter. It was axions all along.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2azFOX9P0fc
    Thanks this is very cool, stealing me away from the NBA game

  5. #514
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sharkeysnight View Post
    Good lord. What’s next, the biological relationship between nose shape and moral purity? This is completely insane.
    May I remind you all that we’re comparing women’s accomplishments on activities which men have historically excelled at.

    Women have other fantastic qualities, and the true misogyny might be comparing women to men.

    Love women as they are and accept them as they are, do not hold them to unrealistic standards.

  6. #515
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sedona
    Posts
    3,454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    The gender balance in orchestras was greatly affected by the start of blind auditions:

    ‘In a blind audition the identity of the performer is concealed from the judges so as to prevent bias. The performance takes place behind a curtain so that the judges cannot see the performer. Blind auditions are standard in symphony orchestras and have been shown to increase the hiring of women. According to a 2001 study by Cecilia Rouse of Princeton and Claudia Goldin of Harvard, the introduction of blind auditions to American symphony orchestras increased the probability that a woman would advance from preliminary rounds by 50 percent. Among those symphonies, "about 10 percent of orchestra members were female around 1970, compared to about 35 percent in the mid-1990s." Rouse and Goldin attribute about 30 percent of this gain to the advent of blind auditions, though they admit that their "estimates have large standard errors and at least one persistent effect in the opposite direction." Jazz bassist and clinical psychologist Art Davis is known for launching a legal case which led to the current system of blind auditions for orchestras. In 2010, the competitive talent show The Voice of Holland introduced the use of blind auditions to televised talent shows; the format was then quickly franchised to dozens of other countries.’

    Perhaps blind auditions need to be applied or tried for STEM jobs and are a way for women to demonstrate their knowledge, expertise and abilities without the sexism and prejudice. It’s certainly not true that women are incapable of creative or scientific thinking regardless of how many or few are attracted to a predominately male dominated field.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-24-2019 at 03:40.
    "That's all Folks!"

  7. Likes Minor Sixthist, fluteman liked this post
  8. #516
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    So. California, USA
    Posts
    2,428
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    Women were emancipated at the same time as the Jews, and while the latter immediately caught up in all fields of human accomplishment, the former simply never did, to this very day...
    Well that’s a rather extreme oversimplification as are the conclusions you’re drawing from it.

  9. Likes Minor Sixthist liked this post
  10. #517
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    938
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I know people hate anecdotal submissions but... when I got out of grad school I had a chance to work at JPL in Pasadena. When they told me they were hiring a woman to meet quota I was OK with that. At a later interview I was asked if I would work for a woman, I said sure with no hesitation and was offered a job pretty quickly without even meeting the woman who would be my boss. But her boss and I butted horns on the phone before he gave me the job. All this was a red flag that I was too naive too see. I was down to my last hundred dollars and out of options.

    There was no question about my boss' skills, she had a background in astro and physics like myself. But I learned that hiring me was the end of a long search because nobody wanted to work for her, and it wasn't long before coworkers, and even her boss, were advising me to break away ASAP.

    The problem was that she was the type who would dash in to my office and want answers for an important meeting within the hour. She was known as a tyrant and for some reason I let this go on longer than i should have,

    And her boss, the one that I tangled with on the phone, would humiliate his employees in meetings so that nobody would want to go to them. She and I were of a small handful who would put up with this abuse. But she went around the office complaining of discrimination as if she was his only victim, and othes rolled their eyes behind her back. I see this all the time, women assuming that alpha males only abuse them. And I became conditioned to this kind of boss, male and female, and they became very common in my career as if I had a target on my back.

    So there may be more than knowing how to conduct to be a good conductor. We know that men like her boss were also common as conductors might not be welcome now, I say might because those alpha dudes still seem to get their way. The point of this story is that some women may have similar personal shortcomings, attempting to play alpha games, combined with a hostile working environment, that prevent them from reaching a high level of respect. A lot of men aren't very good at it either. It's not just about what happens on the stage and popularity is a professional asset these days.

    FYI this was all in the early 80s. We still had ashtrays in the offices too.
    Last edited by philoctetes; May-24-2019 at 03:42.

  11. Likes fluteman liked this post
  12. #518
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    203
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boychev View Post
    Why the "top 0.01% of the population, not the average man and average woman"? What highest level of mathematics are we talking here - the top 0.01% of men and women taking tests, respectively, or PhDs, or academic work, or what? What are we testing exactly?
    The top 0.01 % of all test scores. They looked at the top 0.01 % of mathematical test scores and found that men and women did not perform equally at this level though they did at lower levels. That is a very high level, though, which few people achieve. This is a bit suspect, actually.
    Last edited by Open Book; May-24-2019 at 04:13.

  13. #519
    Senior Member MacLeod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,489
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by philoctetes View Post
    Assuming the data is reliable, why would one not make a conclusion about what the data implies? It's not a big leap at all,
    One can make a conclusion, of course. Just not the one you're making. By all means pose a hypothesis - that women are less likely to perform as well in maths because of innate factors - but please don't claim it as a conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    The whole point which the handful of people driving this thread is denying,
    "The handful...driving"? You seem to imply not only that the minority here is denying, but also that the minority are in some way conspiring to take this thread in some particular direction against the will of the rest.

    Whether your views are representative of the majority in the wider world or not, in this partuclar thread, they stick out like a sore thumb as a glaring minority view. If anyone's doing any "driving", it's you and your...old-fashioned determination.
    "I left TC for a hiatus, but since no-one noticed my absence, I came back again."

  14. Likes Boychev, Minor Sixthist liked this post
  15. #520
    Senior Member Jacck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Czech Republic
    Posts
    3,259
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodduck View Post
    Are you threatened by a handful of foolish teenagers? So threatened that you can ask how "these kinds of people" should be "allowed" to study at university? Isn't that question a little, um, "intolerant and fanatical"? We allow all kinds of people to attend university here, even immature young people who think they know it all. What do you do with them in the Czech Republic, draft them into the military? Or don't you have immature young people there?

    If it will help you feel better, I can assure you that these kids represent a confused, fanatical fringe and are not typical of the political left in this country. They do not constitute a vast movement that's plotting to neuter the population. I can in fact tell you that there are far, far fewer of them than there are, even now, of good old-fashioned bigots, who only seem more normal because they have centuries of traditional prejudice to appeal to.
    I do not know how fringe these people are, but look at what happened at Harvard with students being "triggered" by courses about rape law
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...ching-rape-law
    or the recent Sullivan case
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/15/o...weinstein.html

    It does not seem like "fringe" fanatics, when the university caves in to their absurd demands.
    In Czech Republic, law students that would refuse some part of the curriculum, because it "triggers" them, would simply be told, that they don't have to be at the school and are free to leave, if they dislike it. It is like medical students being triggered by blood.

    My point is that this whole leftist ideology is wrong and totalitarian, and the rot starts will all these professors of gender studies and similar ideological pseudosciences. The students are just the end result of the brainwashing. There are simply wrong ideological asssumptions at the heart of this movement (that men and women are the same, and they have to be equally represtend on all jobs, if that does not happen, it is discrimination etc). Here some reasonable feminist actually sees the problem
    https://qz.com/1218680/the-science-o...-be-afraid-of/
    and here Peterson - the archenemy No1 of these fanatics
    https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/poli...-goes-too-far/

  16. #521
    Senior Member MacLeod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,489
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    There are simply wrong ideological asssumptions at the heart of this movement (that men and women are the same, and they have to be equally represtend on all jobs, if that does not happen, it is discrimination etc).
    You seem determined to misrepresent others' arguments. I don't think anyone is saying that "men and women are the same". Your assumptions about others' "ideology" is wrong, and your ideological opposition to "ideology" is ironic.
    "I left TC for a hiatus, but since no-one noticed my absence, I came back again."

  17. Likes Boychev liked this post
  18. #522
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sedona
    Posts
    3,454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post
    You seem determined to misrepresent others' arguments. I don't think anyone is saying that "men and women are the same". Your assumptions about others' "ideology" is wrong, and your ideological opposition to "ideology" is ironic.
    Yes. I don’t see everyone saying that men and women are the same, only that men and women are capable of being good at the same thing and deserve to demonstrate their talent and ability on more of an equal playing field. Otherwise, vive la différence. I do not go along with those who consider women on the podium a political rather than a social, moral, or artistic consideration. Keep politics out of it because it’s not the answer to what’s going on in the arts. The arts are the humanities and the unhappiness needs to be sorted out on that level. Men are in no danger of being pushed off the podium by the minority of women who have the talent and wish to conduct, and women are willing to earn their position.
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-24-2019 at 09:16.
    "That's all Folks!"

  19. #523
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    The whole point which the handful of people driving this thread is denying, is that women are where they are not because of misogyny but because of their natural state of being.

    Women were emancipated at the same time as the Jews, and while the latter immediately caught up in all fields of human accomplishment, the former simply never did, to this very day. There is simply no logical debate: the facts speak for themselves and this thread truly proves that ideology cannot be reasoned with.

    You can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences that come with doing so.
    The whole point which 1996D who seems intent on spewing his smelly nonsense in this thread is denying, is that women are where they are not because of their natural state of being but because of misogyny.

    1996D has been an emancipated person all along, and while many other emancipated people have throughout history developed a deeper level of empathy, self-awareness, and understanding of the human condition, 1996D simply never did, to this very day. There is simply no logical debate: the facts speak for themselves and this thread truly proves that ideology cannot be reasoned with.

    You can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences that come with doing so. Like how if you want to ramble nonsense about women being biologically inferior to men, someone somewhere (on a college campus even) might have a problem with your bigotry and even go so far as to protest you and hurt your special snowflake feelings.
    Last edited by Boychev; May-24-2019 at 08:53.

  20. Likes Minor Sixthist liked this post
  21. #524
    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    4,920
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1996D View Post
    May I remind you all that we’re comparing women’s accomplishments on activities which men have historically excelled at.

    Women have other fantastic qualities, and the true misogyny might be comparing women to men.

    Love women as they are and accept them as they are, do not hold them to unrealistic standards.
    In the hope that you start posting something specific (instead of repeating the same assertions again and again with no attempt to engage any of the objections that have been raised) I ask that you tell us how women are and what they are good for in your world view. And while you are at it could you also tell us if your rule that women can't excel at conducting whether that applies to all women or whether it might be possible for a few women to buck the trend that you see.

  22. Likes Minor Sixthist liked this post
  23. #525
    Senior Member Minor Sixthist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    227
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiast View Post
    In the hope that you start posting something specific (instead of repeating the same assertions again and again with no attempt to engage any of the objections that have been raised) I ask that you tell us how women are and what they are good for in your world view. And while you are at it could you also tell us if your rule that women can't excel at conducting whether that applies to all women or whether it might be possible for a few women to buck the trend that you see.
    He already told us. They're good for having babies and mothering. That was about it.
    Last edited by Minor Sixthist; May-24-2019 at 13:14.

  24. Likes Enthusiast liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •