Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 176

Thread: Oh dear! - James Levine

  1. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    It's high time this was accepted as a generalised problem. No more of this doubting and individual cases hiding behind a perpetual defence of 'innocent until proven guilty' and claiming a witch-hunt.

    Thirty years ago I was a boarder at a fairly well-known school where these things were common talk among students. We used to laugh when we saw a student had a private lesson scheduled with a particular teacher; because we knew no better at that age. I suffered no major abuse, but I had unusual experiences, like the old fellow who ran his hands up and down my ribs and over the pectorals when explaining 'breathing' for the trumpet. I told him to cool it, but it took some courage. Another grabbed me by the hair after I refused to eat a Mr Kipling's 'fondant fancy'. I now realise that it was a 'test' to see how malleable I was.

    It's depressing to realise that almost every corner of activity, education, work even when people are in care situations, seems to harbour some of this activity.

  2. Likes Blancrocher, Becca, Granate and 2 others liked this post
  3. #17
    Senior Member Bellinilover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,570
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eramire156 View Post
    A sad day, but not a surprise there have been rumors for years.

    https://nypost.com/2017/12/02/legend...police-report/
    Yes, I had heard them, too -- and I've only been an opera-lover since 1998.

    What I'm wondering is, will Peter Gelb have to leave the Met now? Apparently, he shielded Levine from the police for a year.

    Some on another site were suggesting that this scandal could in fact mean the end of the Metropolitan Opera as an institution (I hope not).

  4. #18
    Senior Member ldiat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Lancaster, Ca.
    Posts
    5,692
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    from face book 15 mins ago
    The Metropolitan Opera
    13 mins ·
    We are suspending our relationship with James Levine, pending an investigation, following multiple allegations of sexual misconduct by Mr. Levine that took place from the 1960's to the 1980's, including the earlier part of his conducting career at the Met. Mr. Levine will not be involved in any Met activities, including conducting scheduled performances at the Met this season. "While we await the results of the investigation, based on these new news reports, the Met has made the decision to act now," said Peter Gelb, Met General Manager, whose actions are fully supported by the leadership of the Met Board and its Executive Committee. "This is a tragedy for anyone whose life has been affected."

  5. #19
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,882
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Sad news, and depressing that so many men, for so long, have abused their positions of power. Doubly sad that so much of this abuse was an open secret, and yet still went unchecked.

    But good that the victims finally feel empowered to speak up in such large numbers--and that, at least for now, they're being taken more seriously than ever before.
    Alan

  6. Likes mountmccabe liked this post
  7. #20
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    19,995
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    ... No more of this doubting and individual cases hiding behind a perpetual defence of 'innocent until proven guilty'
    "Innocent until proven guilty" is not a defense but a basic principle of justice. It is the bedrock of the criminal justice systems in many countries, including mine. I am quite glad of that.


  8. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    "Innocent until proven guilty" is not a defense but a basic principle of justice. It is the bedrock of the criminal justice systems in many countries, including mine. I am quite glad of that.
    Where do you think I hail from? Ancient Sparta? I also believe in that principle, but this is not exactly what I was referring to.
    Your country has put more people to death on flimsier evidence than that which has been presented in a huge number of abuse and sexual abuse cases. I am talking about people with obviously dirty hands playing the system and being aided-and-abetted by a certain vocal group hell-bent on pushing the view that these accusations - especially of popular figures - must be trumped-up by gold-diggers and spurned people and celebrity-seekers.

    The trial of Bill Cosby was a side-show travesty.

  9. Likes notreally, Gaspard de la Nuit liked this post
  10. #22
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    19,995
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    Your country has put more people to death on flimsier evidence than that which has been presented in a huge number of abuse and sexual abuse cases. I am talking about people with obviously dirty hands.
    Well, if you've got a rope I have a tree you can use. Lots of "obviously guilty" people around, I'm sure.


  11. Likes Triplets liked this post
  12. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,198
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Well, if you've got a rope I have a tree you can use. Lots of "obviously guilty" people around, I'm sure.
    No thanks, the death penalty is illegal here in Europe. I'm perfectly happy about that.

    I'll repeat what you appear to be failing to grasp: that people with a mountain of compelling evidence against them are wheedling their way out of charges by playing the 'witch hunt' card and relying upon a (sub)culture of accuser belittling. That they are presumed innocent as they should be in law - is taken as a sign of clean hands all the way.

    I can't think of another way of expressing it.

  13. Likes mountmccabe, Woodduck, notreally and 1 others liked this post
  14. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    44
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default James Levine Suspended From Met Opera

    According to the New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/a...met-opera.html), the Metropolitan Opera's website, and a whole lot of other sources, James Levine has been suspended indefinitely from the Met after several sexual assault allegations, which includes his removal from all performances of Tosca, Il trovatore, and Luisa Miller this season (also marking yet another personnel change for the new production of Tosca).
    My thoughts and best wishes go out to everyone affected.

  15. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    205
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This is indeed disturbing news. I read the New York Times article and there seems to be similar patterns of behavior in regards to the alleged incidents. I have heard and read about several incidents involving other artists in the classical music world over the years. Some were tried and incarcerated for their indiscretions. Years ago, many escaped further investigation, no doubt using their positions to control the damage.
    I guess we will be hearing more sordid accounts about people who just could not seem to keep their urges in check. It is scary because there are plenty of liars in the world. I suppose we will have to wait for a statement from maestro Levine to see if he denies or admits some or all, of the allegations. If he denies, there will still be plenty of people who will not believe him. Unfortunately, as in so many of these cases physical proof is very rare. However, once again, considering James Levine, there seems to be several similar descriptions of sexual abuse over a long period of time. Is everyone lying? Not likely, I have to say. Unless it IS a witch hunt.
    Last edited by KJ von NNJ; Dec-04-2017 at 06:18.

  16. #26
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    19,995
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Not a new problem. In the 1500s Nicolas Gombert, "Master of the Boys" in the court of emperor Charles V, was found guilty of being far too familiar with one of his charges. Although he was (and is) a highly-regarded composer, he was sentenced to hard labor in the galleys and served there for several years. He later returned, chastened one would hope, and evidently resumed his duties.

    Such solutions are no longer available to us. Do we live in a crueler age?
    Last edited by KenOC; Dec-04-2017 at 06:33.


  17. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Met Opera Investigates James Levine for Pedophilia in the 1980s
    Let's stick to the facts, please. The alleged crime in question is sexual harassment/abuse of young men and abuse of power, not "pedophilia".
    Last edited by interestedin; Dec-04-2017 at 09:42.

  18. Likes Harrowby Hall, Bellinilover liked this post
  19. #28
    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    10,385
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The offence is a horrible one although quite how horrible will depend on the actual circumstances. It is also an offence that we have tended to ignore until recently, leaving lots of damaged and traumatised victims with no recourse to justice. But because it is so serious it is surely very important not to condemn an accused until it is proved.

    Whatever the truth about Levine he is seriously damaged by the allegations and this is presumably the end of his career. I imagine, also, that many of his recordings will end up in the second hand bins. If he is prosecuted and found guilty, though, he should also be punished by law and should not be given leniency simply because he is a pillar of the establishment. Indeed, the opposite should be the case,

  20. Likes mountmccabe, Bellinilover liked this post
  21. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    And there is no evidence in these reports that Levine has ever been a paedophile. However, he may well be a hebephile.

  22. Likes Bellinilover liked this post
  23. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Leeds UK
    Posts
    2,064
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    8

    Default

    In the UK, innocent until proven guilty!

  24. Likes Ingélou liked this post
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. James Galway
    By becky in forum Woodwind and Brass
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Aug-05-2020, 13:18
  2. Welcome Announcement from James
    By James in forum Community Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Apr-29-2018, 11:27
  3. James MacMillan
    By Edward Elgar in forum Composer Guestbooks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Aug-26-2012, 17:41
  4. James May's Big Ideas
    By rusty2222 in forum Community Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Oct-01-2008, 08:55
  5. Dear Brothers and Sisters
    By Ganesh in forum New Members - Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sep-13-2007, 22:17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •