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Thread: Oh dear! - James Levine

  1. #61
    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountmccabe View Post
    You understand incorrectly. Or, at the least, none of the four accusers are saying anything about Levine when he was 21, but you may be right, he may have been abusing children then, too.

    Three of the accusers talk about when Levine was 25, and for the other the abuse is alleged to start when Levine was 43 and the boy was 16.

    I would be shocked if these were the only incidents.
    A technical/legal point and not one intended to represent an opinion about Levine et.al., I believe that all of the currently known accusers were at least 16 at the time, therefore the cases are not considered to be pedophilia.
    Last edited by Becca; Dec-06-2017 at 02:34.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott in PA View Post
    The "innocent until proven guilty" standard is meant to keep a person from going to jail (or the gallows). It doesn't necessarily entitle them to continue in their current position.
    True, but civil law might be a factor. Conductors often have multi-year contracts with their orchestras. Payment would be due unless the conductor violated the contract. For instance, there might be a “reprehensible behavior” clause; but that likely would not apply until the behavior is proven or admitted. Accusations alone wouldn’t justify non-payment.

    Depending on Levine’s contract, he may now enjoy sizeable payments for doing nothing at all, a situation which may last a long time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Depending on Levine’s contract, he may now enjoy sizeable payments for doing nothing at all, a situation which may last a long time.
    So continuing in more-or-less the same capacity then.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Seattleoperafan's Avatar
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    He was a great conductor and beloved by his singers. Sadly, he had a dark side as well. I feel for those boys as he was a very unattractive man to have to play footsy with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Always discouraging to hear voices, swollen with righteous indignation, raised in support of crushing people with weaknesses unacceptable in our current fashion. If we were to look at history, and not so distant history at that, how many ropes would we need? I'm sure many of us can name some names, names of people whose music we enjoy without giving their sins too much thought. Sad that many are safely gone, beyond the reach of the retribution we would gladly mete out to them!
    I don't really count preying on children and adolescents as a "weakness" once it's acted upon. It's a crime, and a terrible one. I am friends with victims of child sexual assault and I don't think calling something a "weakness" excuses the trail of hurt and trauma it leaves behind. In many cases I think child sexual assault is worse than rape.

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  7. #66
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    Dear all,

    For anyone wishing to sign a petition asking the Met Opera to reinstate James Levine, here is a link: https://www.change.org/p/metropolita...opolitan-opera

    Kind regards,
    Ashley

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    Has anyone googled the name of the accuser? He is well represented on the internet and seems to be quite a character.

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    Senior Member Becca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Has anyone googled the name of the accuser? He is well represented on the internet and seems to be quite a character.
    "the" accuser ... the last I saw there were at least 4.

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  11. #69
    Senior Member amfortas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashleymic View Post
    Dear all,

    For anyone wishing to sign a petition asking the Met Opera to reinstate James Levine, here is a link: https://www.change.org/p/metropolita...opolitan-opera

    Kind regards,
    Ashley
    From the above petition:

    "It is not the role or duty of the administrations of any companies - be it Hollywood film studios or, in this case, the Board of Directors of the Metropolitan Opera - to take the place of the legal authorities. Within these boards of directors there are no police officers, attorneys or judges. No member of these administrations has passed the bar in their respective state. Many trials in court have shown that sometimes even extremely successful judges allow miscarriages of justice and unfair verdicts. Yet according to the administrations of these private institutions, we are to be believe that they possess the power to determine an accused person's criminal guilt oftentimes without even the help of these entities - and on the basis of their findings to dismiss any given employee and end his or her career."

    This seems to work from the assumption that the innocent-until-proven-guilty standard for criminal prosecution also applies to workplace dismissal. But as Scott suggests above, that's not necessarily the case.
    Alan

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amfortas View Post
    ...This seems to work from the assumption that the innocent-until-proven-guilty standard for criminal prosecution also applies to workplace dismissal. But as Scott suggests above, that's not necessarily the case.
    I don't recall reading that the Met has fired Levine or canceled his contract. My impression is that he has been sidelined, removed from musical activities, until this gets sorted out. Similarly, in most places a cop is taken off the street after any shooting until it can be determined that his conduct was proper.

    So I doubt that any principles of justice have been violated, or that his "guilt" is presumed. Unless, of course, somebody has news of what specific actions the Met has taken!


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    Quote Originally Posted by ashleymic View Post
    Dear all,

    For anyone wishing to sign a petition asking the Met Opera to reinstate James Levine, here is a link: https://www.change.org/p/metropolita...opolitan-opera

    Kind regards,
    Ashley

    Why should we and who are you

  15. #72
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    From Ceefax in my country:

    T
    he public prosecutor in Illinois serves no criminal complaint against James Levine, the former conductor of The Metropolitan Opera in New York. Levine (74) was a week ago accused of sexual abuse, he would thirty years ago have abused a boy of 16. According to the plaintiff, the case was examined and there are several factors that have led to this decision, including the fact that the one that Levine has accused sexual coming of age at the time that the abuse would have occurred. There was also no question of coercion. Levine denies the past week was Levine by three men accused, after which he was suspended by The Metropolitan. That suspected abuse took place in the years 60 and 70. As far as is known, the men have no registered. Levine has always contradicted the accusations. Against The New York Times he says that they are unfounded. "As anyone who knows me knows, I have not lived my life as oppressor or attacker." The world famous conductor was forty years associated with The Metropolitan Opera, where he conducted performances 2500.

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    Senior Member SixFootScowl's Avatar
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    If he is innocent of these acts, then is is a great injustice to remove him from his musical work. On the other hand, if he is guilty, it is detestable. Not sure the truth will ever come out but it seems his career is over.
    “The media’s the most powerful entity on Earth. They have the power to make the innocent look guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power. Because they control the mind of the masses.”
    --Malcolm X

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    There have been decades upon decades of rumors and stories and now there are multiple accusers willing to comment on the matter. Innocent until guilty in a court of law for specific crimes, of course, but it would have to be the grandest of all conspiracies for him to be innocent of all of this. I'm sorry if this bit of reality is inconvenient for people who just want to lose themselves in the music, but that feeling of discomfort doesn't make it untrue.

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