Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 171

Thread: Oh dear! - James Levine

  1. #121
    Senior Member Flamme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Serbia
    Posts
    1,372
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Oh at first i was ''confused'' now im delusional...So predictable, lowering the discussion on ad hominem level, who would thunk?!
    'Listen, Mister god!
    Isn't it boring
    to dip your puffy eyes,
    every day, into a jelly of clouds?'

  2. #122
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flamme View Post
    Oh at first i was ''confused'' now im delusional...So predictable, lowering the discussion on ad hominem level, who would thunk?!
    Not quite. I'm rubbishing the idea. For it to be "ad hominem" it would have to have been an original thought rather than a lazy repetition of a falsehood.

  3. #123
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    485
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulse View Post
    Good grief, how strange. This side of the pond it is considered a taboo to even discuss it. (Doesn't mean it isn't going on though, perhaps that will be one of our future moral crises).

    Back to Levine, my point, not very well made, is that the law is just the base level for the behaviour of public figures. They are expected to meet higher standards than that.
    I saw an article about a refugee giving a pony a poke at a petting zoo in Germany just a month ago. Maybe it's cultural!

  4. Likes N/A liked this post
  5. #124
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    485
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    It's not such an odd opinion really is it?
    It is. Even if one agrees with your caveats about older governments, virtually every constitution written after the American one used it as a model. Now today, particularly in Africa and other developing nations, they have gone in for some of the more 'enlightened' ideas in various European constitutions - like guaranteeing education and health care and "human dignity" in a legal document. So-called "positive rights" that generally infringe upon "negative rights," though the distinction becomes at times clunky.

    Maybe you like those "positive rights," but nothing is more hilarious than a nation like Zimbabwe guaranteeing health care and "human dignity" while engaging in ethnic genocide and abject poverty. I'll give it non-American constitutions - they allow for more jokes!

  6. Likes Johnnie Burgess liked this post
  7. #125
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    It is. Even if one agrees with your caveats about older governments, virtually every constitution written after the American one used it as a model. Now today, particularly in Africa and other developing nations, they have gone in for some of the more 'enlightened' ideas in various European constitutions - like guaranteeing education and health care and "human dignity" in a legal document. So-called "positive rights" that generally infringe upon "negative rights," though the distinction becomes at times clunky.

    Maybe you like those "positive rights," but nothing is more hilarious than a nation like Zimbabwe guaranteeing health care and "human dignity" while engaging in ethnic genocide and abject poverty. I'll give it non-American constitutions - they allow for more jokes!
    It's still not. I'll give you one thing, you Americans are excellent at imagining the importance of your influence, thinking everyone around the globe is trying to use you as a model for dragging themselves into modern civilisation. Give it a rest. Is there any other nation that goes on about its constitution as much as the U.S.A?

    "Virtually every constitution written after the American one used it as a model" is something you made up just now; it isn't factual.
    I'll tell you what's even more hilarious than Zimbabwe's failure, but also more obscene, is how the American constitution can list all its noble citizen's rights guaranteeing health and happiness etc while huge swathes rot physically and mentally for want of healthcare that is actually there, if only you can stump up the hard cash for it. Same for education.

    Parading the lack of social well-being as 'negative/positive rights' (nonsense badly paraphrased from Isaiah Berlin) based in 'freedom' is a convenient way for holders of power to shirk any responsible for anything at all. The problem is particularly marked in the U.S. constitution which makes grandiose, but vague, meaningless claims, but actually practices real law in a similar way to the U.K. where the 'unwritten constitution' is based in 'law in practice'. We don't end up in idiotic conflicts about things like 'gun laws' based upon written guarantees and people bawling about their rights being infringed. In fact U.K. law in practice allows a more fluid response based upon facts-of-the-moment and sense.

    If you have to keep amending something it means it isn't meaningful and that silly constitution is really a relic of a lot of giddy historical nation-builders.

  8. Likes dieter liked this post
  9. #126
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,376
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    It's still not. I'll give you one thing, you Americans are excellent at imagining the importance of your influence, thinking everyone around the globe is trying to use you as a model for dragging themselves into modern civilisation. Give it a rest. Is there any other nation that goes on about its constitution as much as the U.S.A?

    "Virtually every constitution written after the American one used it as a model" is something you made up just now; it isn't factual.
    I'll tell you what's even more hilarious than Zimbabwe's failure, but also more obscene, is how the American constitution can list all its noble citizen's rights guaranteeing health and happiness etc while huge swathes rot physically and mentally for want of healthcare that is actually there, if only you can stump up the hard cash for it. Same for education.

    Parading the lack of social well-being as 'negative/positive rights' (nonsense badly paraphrased from Isaiah Berlin) based in 'freedom' is a convenient way for holders of power to shirk any responsible for anything at all. The problem is particularly marked in the U.S. constitution which makes grandiose, but vague, meaningless claims, but actually practices real law in a similar way to the U.K. where the 'unwritten constitution' is based in 'law in practice'. We don't end up in idiotic conflicts about things like 'gun laws' based upon written guarantees and people bawling about their rights being infringed. In fact U.K. law in practice allows a more fluid response based upon facts-of-the-moment and sense.

    If you have to keep amending something it means it isn't meaningful and that silly constitution is really a relic of a lot of giddy historical nation-builders.
    And thank you Britain for wanting to take guns from the colonist gave us the 2nd amendment the true way to limit any government leader in the US from going to far or face an armed uprising.

  10. #127
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    485
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    It's still not. I'll give you one thing, you Americans are excellent at imagining the importance of your influence, thinking everyone around the globe is trying to use you as a model for dragging themselves into modern civilisation. Give it a rest. Is there any other nation that goes on about its constitution as much as the U.S.A?
    So you announce your dislike for Americans and what (you think) they believe in. Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    "Virtually every constitution written after the American one used it as a model" is something you made up just now; it isn't factual.
    It is factual. It's waned in recent years but it's inarguable. Bad way to start your argument by stating flagrant falsehoods. And that was literally the first Google result, I encourage you to do your own research if you want because I already have.


    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    I'll tell you what's even more hilarious than Zimbabwe's failure, but also more obscene, is how the American constitution can list all its noble citizen's rights guaranteeing health and happiness etc while huge swathes rot physically and mentally for want of healthcare that is actually there, if only you can stump up the hard cash for it. Same for education.
    What a shocker, you don't understand the US Constitution or what it guarantees. Not seeing how this discussion will be fruitful when you clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about. No where is "health and happiness" guaranteed in the US Constitution.


    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    Parading the lack of social well-being as 'negative/positive rights' (nonsense badly paraphrased from Isaiah Berlin) based in 'freedom' is a convenient way for holders of power to shirk any responsible for anything at all. The problem is particularly marked in the U.S. constitution which makes grandiose, but vague, meaningless claims, but actually practices real law in a similar way to the U.K. where the 'unwritten constitution' is based in 'law in practice'. We don't end up in idiotic conflicts about things like 'gun laws' based upon written guarantees and people bawling about their rights being infringed. In fact U.K. law in practice allows a more fluid response based upon facts-of-the-moment and sense.

    If you have to keep amending something it means it isn't meaningful and that silly constitution is really a relic of a lot of giddy historical nation-builders.
    So it seems now that you don't even understand how the US Constition functions in the hierarchy of law in the US. So let's review,

    - you don't know what the US Constitution guarantees
    - you don't understand how the hierarchical scheme in the US law works
    - you hate that the US Constitution is a limiting structure, rather than a provisional one

    I think it's just the jealous ex-monarchist in you. I'll concede you do monarchy and authoritarianism better than us, no argument there.

  11. #128
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    And thank you Britain for wanting to take guns from the colonist gave us the 2nd amendment the true way to limit any government leader in the US from going to far or face an armed uprising.
    Pure fantasy. The official army in the wrong hands won't be matched by little groups of middle-aged men with little guns. It's no longer the 18th century. Modern tyranny is enacted by PR and bureaucracy and it's power is in appearing to be official, rational policy. It's precisely how these 'how could it happen' moments of tyranny occur.

  12. Likes N/A, dieter liked this post
  13. #129
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,376
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eugeneonagain View Post
    Pure fantasy. The official army in the wrong hands won't be matched by little groups of middle-aged men with little guns. It's no longer the 18th century. Modern tyranny is enacted by PR and bureaucracy and it's power is in appearing to be official, rational policy. It's precisely how these 'how could it happen' moments of tyranny occur.
    You forget there are millions of Americans between 25 to 45 who have combat experience and would take up arms against anyone who goes against the constitution.

  14. #130
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    So you announce your dislike for Americans and what (you think) they believe in. Got it.
    I don't dislike Americans in general, I'm just correcting your falsehoods. So no, you haven't "got it".

    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    It is factual. It's waned in recent years but it's inarguable. Bad way to start your argument by stating flagrant falsehoods. And that was literally the first Google result, I encourage you to do your own research if you want because I already have.
    Inarguable. What foolishness. If you've actually looked at constitutions around the world, you'll see they vary wildly and reflect local requirements rather than grand enlightenment 'ideas'. Them saying they used yours as a 'model' is mere lip-service. That constitution itself takes inspiration from the (now rather worthless Magna Carta). I really don't care what PR articles you dig up on the internet. That's not "research".

    [QUOTE=bz3;1362930]What a shocker, you don't understand the US Constitution or what it guarantees. Not seeing how this discussion will be fruitful when you clearly don't have any idea what you're talking about. No where is "health and happiness" guaranteed in the US Constitution.

    I do understand it, that's why I can criticise it. You'll need to work a bit harder though, when I say 'health and happiness' I'm not directly quoting from anything in that document. What I'm actually saying is that despite all the claims in the collection of 'founding documents' things don't seem to have worked out all that well with basic needs for the citizenry.

    Quote Originally Posted by bz3 View Post
    So it seems now that you don't even understand how the US Constition functions in the hierarchy of law in the US. So let's review,

    - you don't know what the US Constitution guarantees
    - you don't understand how the hierarchical scheme in the US law works
    - you hate that the US Constitution is a limiting structure, rather than a provisional one

    I think it's just the jealous ex-monarchist in you. I'll concede you do monarchy and authoritarianism better than us, no argument there.
    You can review as many of your self-created falsehoods as you want chief. I'm entirely uninterested in your black and white responses masquerading as the firm hand of 'scholarship'. That last sentence is a complete joke. The most authoritarian nation in the Western world, masked under clever marketing, is the U.S. I've also never seen a non-monarchist nation so desperate for a monarchy without the name monarchy.

  15. Likes N/A, dieter liked this post
  16. #131
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    19,526
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default



  17. Likes Granate, N/A, Selby liked this post
  18. #132
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    You forget there are millions of Americans between 25 to 45 who have combat experience and would take up arms against anyone who goes against the constitution.
    Really? Well why hasn't it happened yet then? Good governance and the constitution has been contravened on so many occasions.

    It only seems to be a particular sort of mindset thinking this and all those with it seem to be generally content with the current government and especially the president, who acts most contrary to the ethos of the constitution. It's quite telling that this mentality was at its height during the Obama administration; the truth is that 'tyranny' in modern North America means 'the government and it's policies that don't agree with my views', rather than an actual tyranny.

  19. Likes dieter liked this post
  20. #133
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    I expect the cup of coffee to be bigger.

    I'll tell you what, I was aghast to learn that a 'Full English Breakfast' was actually a concept we took from the U.S. in the early 20th century. I give you your due.

  21. #134
    Assistant Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    10,280
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The thread has veered into pure politics and some posts are a bit heated. We're temporarily closing the thread so people can get back to the topic which includes James Levine and possibly other musicians.

  22. Likes Pugg, amfortas, Granate liked this post
  23. #135
    Assistant Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    10,280
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The thread is now open again. Please make sure your comments are focused on Levine's behavior, similar behavior among musicians, or topics related to music. Do not post purely political comments.

Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 56789101112 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Welcome Announcement from James
    By James in forum Community Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: Apr-29-2018, 11:27
  2. James MacMillan
    By Edward Elgar in forum Composer Guestbooks
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: Aug-26-2012, 17:41
  3. James May's Big Ideas
    By rusty2222 in forum Community Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Oct-01-2008, 08:55
  4. James Galway
    By becky in forum Woodwind and Brass
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Jan-07-2008, 22:33
  5. Dear Brothers and Sisters
    By Ganesh in forum New Members - Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Sep-13-2007, 22:17

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •