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Thread: Fantasy fugue in F minor.

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    Default Fantasy fugue in F minor.

    Tried a fugue subject a tad short



    Opinions?

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    May sound funny coming from me, but I thought the 2nd chord of the 6th bar a little weird sounding. I thought the counterpoint where the 2nd voice came in was nice, but the last 3 bars of the subject could be omitted and it would work even better.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    May sound funny coming from me, but I thought the 2nd chord of the 6th bar a little weird sounding. I thought the counterpoint where the 2nd voice came in was nice, but the last 3 bars of the subject could be omitted and it would work even better.
    Haha, bar 6 is just a modern chord.resolution. Just a little joke
    Unfortunately removing the last 3 bars of the subject would.destroy the structure of the subject itself, since it develops "by itself", and the last three bars are sort of the "cadential phrase", which first doesn't resolve (deceptive), foreshadowing the deceptive chord after the V/V pedal (G) at the end, and then resolves the subject in a normal manner.

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    Senior Member beetzart's Avatar
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    Hi Zeus, I really enjoyed that, very impressive. I've tried writing fugues but to little success. Do you have anymore compositions?
    I love Muzio Clementi's music.

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    Senior Member Torkelburger's Avatar
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    The counterpoint is very good and is really nice to listen to. I really enjoyed it. However, the form rubs me the wrong way. The subject is at least twice as long as it needs to be. It meanders. Aim for 4-8 bars for a good fugue subject. Also the linking/transitional material between the first and second voice is too chromatic and exploratory, and too long as well. Its purpose is to introduce the new accidental(s) of the second voice’s key so that the second voice sounds inevitable, not explore other notes or keys which sounds confusing. Your fugue is missing episodic development of the subject after the exposition (after all 3 voices have entered with the subject) in which there should be several “episodes” of statements of the subject/countersubject in distant keys with transitional material in between. But adding this in where it belongs would make your fugue twice as long as it is, so that is another reason why your fugue subject should be shorter. This development happens before the final return of the final statement in the home key, something that your fugue also lacks. I realize that you have titled this a “Fantasy Fugue” but just make sure that you’re not pasting the “fantasy” label on it as a cop-out for not understanding the form. Personally, I don’t see what has been accomplished musically as a fantasy with this contrapuntal music that couldn’t be expressed better as a proper fugue. The ideas would be much more coherent as a fugue.

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    I know how to write a fugue, and I wrote the subject deliberately lengthy just for the fun of it.

    I mean, it's not even a fugue, just some sort of 3 part invention with obliggated counterdubjects, and a new small theme kn the middle. As for development, its poor. I know. I just wanted to have fun with a long subject. Dont misunderstand me: It's not that I don't know or care, I just wanted to write a contrapuntal piece with an extremely long subject
    Last edited by Zeus; Jan-12-2018 at 18:44.

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    I would have said some of what Torkelburger said. The only thing I'd add is to wonder whether the pedal part is playable. I'm not an organist but it looks tremendously difficult at that tempo.

    Why are they so sick and ridiculous, Dannie?
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    Yes. The pedal part is very hard and uncomfortable to play, however I consulted with an organist friend, and told me it is playable. Of course, not practical, and not like this is a piece I would give to somebody to play, because of it's poor form and low musical quality.

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    WHOA! Your counterpoint technique is extraordinary. In fact I think that If you had lived in the baroque era, we would probably have been learning your name in the music history classes.
    But unfortunately I think that there is no chance to have succes with this kind of music nowadays because of the style. It is simply music of the past, which can´t resonate much in nowadays society.
    But it is damn good piece of music.

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    Thanks for your compliment; I'm flattered. However you are of course exaggerating. There are thousands of competent composers today and all of them have studied counterpoint in their learning process, along with it's diverse forms (canon, invention, fugue, chorales etc). Because we have access to so many works from the likes of Bach, Buxtehude, Vivaldi or Haendel (and more) we can attempt to imitate their style (strictly or freely), which is a great tool for assimilating their compositional style, and enrichen our own.
    Last edited by Zeus; Jan-13-2018 at 12:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torkelburger View Post
    The counterpoint is very good and is really nice to listen to. I really enjoyed it. However, the form rubs me the wrong way. The subject is at least twice as long as it needs to be. It meanders. Aim for 4-8 bars for a good fugue subject. Also the linking/transitional material between the first and second voice is too chromatic and exploratory, and too long as well. Its purpose is to introduce the new accidental(s) of the second voice’s key so that the second voice sounds inevitable, not explore other notes or keys which sounds confusing. Your fugue is missing episodic development of the subject after the exposition (after all 3 voices have entered with the subject) in which there should be several “episodes” of statements of the subject/countersubject in distant keys with transitional material in between. But adding this in where it belongs would make your fugue twice as long as it is, so that is another reason why your fugue subject should be shorter. This development happens before the final return of the final statement in the home key, something that your fugue also lacks. I realize that you have titled this a “Fantasy Fugue” but just make sure that you’re not pasting the “fantasy” label on it as a cop-out for not understanding the form. Personally, I don’t see what has been accomplished musically as a fantasy with this contrapuntal music that couldn’t be expressed better as a proper fugue. The ideas would be much more coherent as a fugue.
    Sorry to revisit your comment such a long time later. I think I replied rather abruptly without taking many things you said in consideration.

    I think your feedback is on point, and I should admit I completed this work fully aware of its mediocrity. I just took a small sense of "pride" in having composed a fugue subject so long (45 seconds) which can stand on its own without ever losing interest, and I wanted to complete a work around it any way I could, so the result is the piece above. The introduction and final chords, I added them after the central (contrapuntal) part. My initial idea was to create a new subject (the new theme stated by the pedals after the exposition) and then combine it with the initial one in a development section, and then return to a double fugue re-exposition. Such a monumental idea I couldn't handle, so I just completed it roughly and let the work die, because I'm working on other pieces now. I appreciate your feedback though, and I should admit when I'm right or wrong, and not be whimsical with some of my ideas.

    Thanks!

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