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Thread: Proposed elimination of arts funding

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Hobson's choice
    Great movie by the way.. Surprised this thread is still going here, seems to me as if it's slightly out of place.

  2. #47
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromatose View Post
    Great movie by the way...
    I read that Charles Laughton was the highest-paid actor in movies for a time. It's not surprising.


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    Charles Laughton in The Canterville Ghost. Made before I was born but still remember it being shown when I was fairly young years after in Canada.
    Last edited by DaveM; Feb-13-2018 at 08:31.

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    Thread temporarily closed - Politics in main forum - while we decide what to do.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

    A number of posts have been removed. The thread has been moved to Politics and Religion in Classical Music area.

    Please concentrate on the musical or artistic aspects of funding rather than the politics. If you wish to discuss politics, please use the social groups.


    Last edited by Taggart; Feb-13-2018 at 19:51.
    Music begins where words leave off. Music expresses the inexpressible.

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  6. #50
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    I would totally cut the funding it is not mentioned in the US constitution
    Try applying that criterion for everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnnie Burgess View Post
    It's not the goverment's job unless you would like for it to have more control over what music or art the people produce to be able to get money for the government?
    Funding for the artist does not equal control over the art produced. Unless the US has turned into an 18th century duchy without me noticing.

  9. #52
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
    Funding for the artist does not equal control over the art produced. Unless the US has turned into an 18th century duchy without me noticing.
    In the US this is actually a major issue and (sorry) funding does equal control. Read the Wiki entry on the NEA, especially the 1989 controversy over NEA grants to Mapplethorpe etc (mentioned earlier) and the vetoes of grants to specific artists in 1990 and following. 'The "NEA Four", Karen Finley, Tim Miller, John Fleck, and Holly Hughes, were performance artists whose proposed grants from the United States government's National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) were vetoed by John Frohnmayer in June 1990. Grants were overtly vetoed on the basis of subject matter after the artists had successfully passed through a peer review process.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...989_objections


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  11. #53
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
    TIme and again the free market is the best way to get things done. It's too bad the public at large doesn't value the arts anymore. But that's the fault of the artists, our crappy educational system, the mass media...
    Yes, certainly not the all-pervasive vapidity of consumer culture.

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  13. #54
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    In the US this is actually a major issue and (sorry) funding does equal control. Read the Wiki entry on the NEA, especially the 1989 controversy over NEA grants to Mapplethorpe etc (mentioned earlier) and the vetoes of grants to specific artists in 1990 and following. 'The "NEA Four", Karen Finley, Tim Miller, John Fleck, and Holly Hughes, were performance artists whose proposed grants from the United States government's National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) were vetoed by John Frohnmayer in June 1990. Grants were overtly vetoed on the basis of subject matter after the artists had successfully passed through a peer review process.'

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...989_objections
    I'm not surprised that has often been the case in America. I wasn't disputing that it could be tied in with control. It just doesn't have to be necessarily endemic.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
    I'm not surprised that has often been the case in America. I wasn't disputing that it could be tied in with control. It just doesn't have to be necessarily endemic.
    It has been, is, and hopefully always will be endemic. Just don't spend my money on your music.

    I believe the British used to say "If you take the King's shilling, you play the King's tune." Which I guess is why Bach didn't write 12-tone music.


  16. #56
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    So in USA if a benefactor chooses to donate to an orchestra does he get to veto what is played?
    Last edited by Tulse; Feb-13-2018 at 23:52.

  17. #57
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulse View Post
    So in USA if a benefactor chooses to donate to an orchestra does he get to veto what is played?
    I’m sure that happens, especially if the orchestra depends heavily on a large contributor. And legally it can happen.

    I believe most orchestras, though, program according to their business objectives which may be many. One key objective, of course, is always to stay afloat financially, which means putting bums in seats consistently and at a decent price. That introduces its own bias into programming, of course.

    Added: Most US orchestras depend on private contributions for well over half their costs. They are particularly solicitous of their annual season subscribers and will do just about anything to avoid offending them. Since a good portion of these folks are business people or their surviving spouses, it’s likely their musical tastes may be “less refined” than those often found in this forum. Sad but true!
    Last edited by KenOC; Feb-14-2018 at 00:05.


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  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Brooks View Post
    There is no moral basis for an entity taking money from some people to be distributed by a bureaucracy to others for art.
    Does there need to be a moral basis? Just a democratic one, surely? I'm happy for my taxes to fund the arts, less happy to fund some other things, but I realise that's how democracy works.

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  21. #59
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    I read that little article you sent to me a couple of posts ago, KenOC, and had my suspicions confirmed: it'd be Christian conservatives having a tantrum and implementing that tantrum in policy. We don't have Christian fundamentalists having a say in our Arts funding, unlike the US, nor other kinds of partisan dogmatists of any other ideology trying to censor everything. Sure, we have our annoying politically correct folk like the rest of the western world, but they're dealt with fairly swiftly: take the recent affair in Manchester Art Gallery, when a curator removed a Pre-Raphaelite masterpiece from display because she thought its depiction of the female nude was 'problematic', or some other cliched cultural studies argument. There was a public outlash and so the painting was put up again within a few days. And that was just a curator. Our galleries are public anyway, but as a result, the public has a right to be outraged when censorship occurs from up on high and it is resolved.
    Maybe art funding = control over in America, but only because it's a raging cultural battlefield just like almost every other corner of American life as I see it from across the pond. Please convince me I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Tallisman; Feb-14-2018 at 00:27.

  22. #60
    Senior Member Tallisman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Brooks View Post
    There is no moral basis for an entity taking money from some people to be distributed by a bureaucracy to others for art.
    There's no 'moral basis' for about 99% of life. Try and find a 'moral basis' for every bureaucratic process and you'll find a barren desert.
    Last edited by Tallisman; Feb-14-2018 at 00:31.

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