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Thread: Does Classical Music Study Turn One Against Liberalism?

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    If the NEA is right, then the arts and culture segment of the economy is quite healthy. Seems a strange reason to provide subsidies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    In the US, the function of government is clearly laid out in the Constitution. There is not a lot in there about "improving the lot of the people," perhaps because it was believed the people would take care of that themselves without depending on government. And there is certainly nothing about improving the people themselves, for instance by forcing "fine art" upon them.
    With all due respect, KenOC, it's really not about forcing fine art upon them, it's simply making it available. There are so many things that our government already pays for through our taxes. We don't have to have those things, but we enjoy them, and they add to the betterment of our society - National Parks; just one example of what the constitution didn't mention, but we all love them!

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  4. #48
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beet131 View Post
    With all due respect, KenOC, it's really not about forcing fine art upon them, it's simply making it available.
    Do you know anybody to whom classical music is "unavailable"? It's practically free for the taking, for the first time in history. Anybody can listen to anything they want, at any time. Subsidizing a symphony orchestra, or a hundred orchestras, will make no difference at all.


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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    If the NEA is right, then the arts and culture segment of the economy is quite healthy. Seems a strange reason to provide subsidies.
    Can't hurt to have an even bigger boost, I suppose. We subsidize oil companies. If our subsidies for the arts matched just a small percentage of what we've given to oil companies - Hallelujah!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Do you know anybody to whom classical music is "unavailable"? It's practically free for the taking, for the first time in history. Anybody can listen to anything they want, at any time. Subsidizing a symphony orchestra, or a hundred orchestras, will make no difference at all.
    Yes, but live performances don't happen at any time they want. Subsidies might make free concerts more readily available, and would provide greater exposure.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Fun talking, but I'm outta here. When it comes down to "Well, the gummint subsidizes those evil oil companies, so it otta subsidize the arts (specifically, the ones I like) as well," then things have gone far enough. Bye!


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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Fun talking, but I'm outta here. When it comes down to "Well, the gummint subsidizes those evil oil companies, so it otta subsidize the arts (specifically, the ones I like) as well," then things have gone far enough. Bye!
    Adios, Amigo. It's been fun. I think we've done a short expose on libertarian vs. progressive. I hope you know that I truly respect your ideas and opinions!

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    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Fun talking, but I'm outta here. When it comes down to "Well, the gummint subsidizes those evil oil companies, so it otta subsidize the arts (specifically, the ones I like) as well," then things have gone far enough. Bye!
    Here is a headline you've never read: Excess Taxes For Arts Funding Leads To Destroyed Ecosystem And Collapsed Fishery.*

    But your tax dollars (yes, your tax dollars) have supported destroying an ecosystem and collapsing a fishery in my State. Just think if we had diverted that money instead to arts funding. More tune a piano, more tuna fish!


    * Some Floridians pay not one, not two, but 6 different taxes that do just that. And all Americans pay at least 3!
    The more I compose, the more I know that I don't know it all. I think it's a good way to start. If you think you know it all, the work becomes a repetition of what you've already done. ~ A. R. Rahman

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  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Room2201974 View Post
    Here is a headline you've never read: Excess Taxes For Arts Funding Leads To Destroyed Ecosystem And Collapsed Fishery.*

    But your tax dollars (yes, your tax dollars) have supported destroying an ecosystem and collapsing a fishery in my State. Just think if we had diverted that money instead to arts funding. More tune a piano, more tuna fish!


    * Some Floridians pay not one, not two, but 6 different taxes that do just that. And all Americans pay at least 3!
    Well-said, Room2201974! I couldn't agree more! I've got to remember "More tune a piano, more tuna fish." That's awesome!

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    I was researching salaries of orchestra members across the USA. The Big Five orchestras - New York Philharmonic, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Cleveland Orchestra, Philadelphia Orchestra, and the LA Philharmonic - all compensate their players pretty well. Unfortunately, other fine orchestras across this country have relatively low salaries in the 40K to 50K range. Considering all the years of intense study and practice, all the many years of music school classes and private lessons, and the enormous cost of this education to the musician, this is just another reason to boost public funding of the arts to help some of our most gifted and talented citizens. I do not subscribe to the Darwinian values of our runaway capitalist system that rewards those who make the rich richer. The contributions of classical musicians is invaluable and should be rewarded accordingly. (I am not a musician other than having an average voice and having sung in amateur choirs for decades, so no conflict of interest here. I am simply an advocate.) The concept of "supply and demand" is a bitter pill. We can do so much more for ourselves than we are doing. As Room2201974 so rightly implied, let's put our money to good use and support the best of humanity while replacing that which is destructive.

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    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
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    Modern Times: Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson

    Make sure you at least get to the 15 minute mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenOC View Post
    Fun talking, but I'm outta here. When it comes down to "Well, the gummint subsidizes those evil oil companies, so it otta subsidize the arts (specifically, the ones I like) as well," then things have gone far enough. Bye!
    What an odd standpoint. If we can't use our collective resources to promote access to the best of culture then it's a poor show.

    The alternative (promoted by anti-collective-government zealots) is always waiting for some well-heeled person or organisation to do the very same thing: provide those resources that are so difficult to come up with. Then you get the choices they decide make because they are 'footing the bill'. And they move on when it's no-longer deemed profitable and tough luck for all those who put their heart and soul into making something.

    You have it upside-down, inside-out and the wrong way around.
    Last edited by eugeneonagain; May-22-2018 at 20:19.

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    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
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    I'm a hard core progressive.

    My love for classical music has had no effect on my political leanings.

    Oh, and Jordan Peterson is kind of a joke.

    He's lied about the effects the new Canadian law, Bill C-16 will have.

    He's claimed that the only way someone can stop smoking is to have had a 'spiritual experience'.

    He's claimed that the only way to be moral is to be a theist, and that if an atheist is behaving ethically and morally, they are actually a theist.

    He has so distorted the meaning of term "religious", that is is almost useless. Peterson, "religious is what you act out". Everyone acts out. So everyone is religious. Seriously?!

    He's claimed that anyone that has taken psilocybin mushrooms, and have claimed to have had a 'spiritual experience, has actually had a 'spiritual experience'. He does not allow for the possibility that they have simply misinterpreted their altered consciousness to believe they had a 'spiritual experience'.
    Last edited by Simon Moon; May-22-2018 at 20:49.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

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    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
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    I love their take on post modernism's effect on modern art.

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    Now if only Peterson would stop there instead of cramming his bog-standard conservative complaints into the mix; hoping no-one will recognise them for the trite prejudices they are.

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