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Thread: SS 04.05.18 - Haydn #86

  1. #16
    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    This one...

    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

  2. #17
    Senior Member Haydn67's Avatar
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    Though I'm not especially fond of this symphony's second movement, I still enjoy very much mvts. 1,3,4, and am well satisfied with Dorati's Decca rendition. I recently listened to an absolutely superb Haitink/Dresden Staatskapelle performance from 2004 in London's Royal Albert Hall on You Tube.

  3. #18
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    I own the Fischer set, but I thought I would give this a listen. Very nice so far.

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  5. #19
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    I also own the Fischer set, listened to 86 recently and think it is one of his better performances in the set. I also own Kuijken/OAE and haven't listened to it for a while, so that's the one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn67 View Post
    Though I'm not especially fond of this symphony's second movement, ...
    I think both Kuijken and Fischer handle it very well. It is a rather strange and difficult movement, especially the main theme that (for me) conjures up some heavy footed thief walking on tiptoe trying to escape being discovered, but he's so clumsy he's bound to be found out. Maybe this is Haydn channelling some of his experience in putting on Italian comic operas for Prince Esterhazy - 200 a year during one period! Kuijken gets round the possible irritation of this silly joke, I feel, by keeping it, and the other faster themes, going with some brio and vivacity, while the slower parts of that movement are played with great beauty by the OAE.

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  8. #21
    Senior Member Haydn man's Avatar
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    Having listened to several versions No.86, here are my thoughts
    Fischer and Dorati provide fine performances and I could happily live with either, if pushed I might give Fischer the edge the playing and recording just seem to have a little more precision and sparkle.
    Fey and Kuijken from the HIP standpoint is a little easier to choose. Fey is good, Kuijken is superb. Kuijken brings wonderful attention to detail and the performance just seems to flow even in the tricky second movement that others have mentioned
    Listen to me when I'm talking to you boy!

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  10. #22
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    A lot of love for Fischer and Kuijken here. I haven't heard others on CD, but they do both fit into my "can't see this being done better" bracket. I didn't think this was true for all of Fischer's performances in the Paris symphonies, I thought his "bear" moth eaten and his "hen" broody. So I'd recommend Kuijken/OAE for the full Paris set. Why is that Fischer set so variable?

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  12. #23
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Why is that Fischer set so variable?
    Because over the years it was recorded (12, I believe), Fischer changed his attitude to certain symphonies and style of performance. Also newer techniques in recording were being explored (some more successful than others). It's still a cracking set . I should play it more often but it's sat at the very top of my CD racks so its easier to grab single performances of others from my eye-level (my H discs are right in front of me when I go to get a CD).
    Last edited by Merl; May-06-2018 at 10:57.

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  14. #24
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    I agree that Fischer is a good set, having just gone through it I put my "cracking" asterix beside 64 symphonies!

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  16. #25
    Senior Member Robert Pickett's Avatar
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    In the end I listened to Kuijken, Fischer, Dorati, Fey, Bruggen and Tafelmusik. Yeah, I know, a bit too HIP-heavy as a selection, but that is just the way it goes.

    Unfortunately I am not so sure this symphony comes off that well with Fischer, a bit flat-footed, especially when compared to Fey, who fares very well! Sorry to disagree, Mal, but I can't give this individual performance a "cracking asterisk" (a better rating system than the boring old penguin three stars system, btw!) I liked Fischer's Paris set last time I gave them a listen, so I was a bit surprised and a tad disappointed. I also found both Bruggen and Bruno Weil a bit too chamber-y, obviously compared to Dorati, but also with Kuijken. Surely there is a grand-ness to the Paris symphonies, just as there is with the Londons? Perhaps I should have given my Bernstein and Karajan readings a spin too? My Naxos Frankencycle is residing in the attic, so I didn't dig into that one. Need to check who conducts No.86...(EDIT: It's Drahos on Volume 11, I reckon that could well be a good 'un!)

    Kuijken and Dorati reign supreme here. Sorry, I did want to expand my likes beyond the obvious. This week's Saturday Symphony seems to have narrowed my outlook. Bummer!
    Last edited by Robert Pickett; May-10-2018 at 08:58.

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