Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 34 of 34

Thread: You need a subwoofer

  1. #31
    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    True full range speakers do not need a sub, as long as the speaker is not compromising some other aspects of reproduction in order to get the low bass and the ability to pressurise the room. But these types of speakers are very expensive.

    There also seems to be added ambient information in the extreme lows. The lower bass frequencies on some recordings contain ambient information that gives spatial cues that let you perceive the size and volume of the recording venue. This is especially true with classical, orchestral recordings.

    A few months ago, I replaced my subs, and during the time I was without subs, I noticed the width and depth of my perceived soundstage, collapsed noticeably. With the subs, it extended about 4-6 feet (1-2 meters) beyond the outer edge of my speakers. Without the subs, it ended at the outer edge of my speakers. It was as if I moved 10 rows further back in the concert hall. I was not expecting this.

    So, even if you feel you don't need any lower frequencies, you are probably missing soundstage and imaging information.
    Last edited by Simon Moon; May-23-2018 at 19:20.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  2. Likes Joe B, Andolink liked this post
  3. #32
    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    845
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordontrek View Post
    I enjoy a nice bass sound as much as the next person, but when it comes to classical, I place a high priority on balance. If the composer wanted me to pay attention to the lower voices, it will come through in the recording if my setup is of good quality and the performer(s) are reproducing the work faithfully. Blaring the bass makes me feel like I'm obscuring the composer's intentions where balance is concerned; highs and mids are usually where the important material is anyway. (never hurts to have just a bit of a thump in the bass, though)
    But that is just my own puritan pontificating. If lots of bass does it for you, then you do you, my friend!
    You seem to be implying that by adding subs, you are adding excessive bass.

    This is absolutely not true. Unless of course one chooses to crank up the sub louder than the main speakers.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  4. Likes Joe B, Andolink liked this post
  5. #33
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Sedona
    Posts
    1,635
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    4

    Cool

    Subwoofer properly placed playing the Verdi Requiem:



    Two tweeters and a mid-range:

    golden-retriever-pup-small-dogs.jpg
    Last edited by Larkenfield; May-24-2018 at 03:52. Reason: Woof woof!
    Don’t think. Thinking is the enemy of creativity. It’s self-conscious, and anything self-conscious is lousy. You can’t try to do things. You simply must do things. —Ray Bradbury

  6. Likes EddieRUKiddingVarese, Joe B liked this post
  7. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe B View Post
    I think both of these posts are on target.

    The object of a sub woofer is to give you the full 20-20KHz experience. A subwoofer, specifically a powered subwoofer, is using a dedicated amp and driver for just the low end. 2 and 3 way speaker systems can not compete at being able to reproduce these low end sounds.....at least not at my budget. And as stated by Andolink, the subwoofer should not draw attention to itself. With room treatment and/or room correction software, the sub can be dialed in so as not to be even noticed....except for the excellent low end sound.

    My main speakers are Paradigm Prestige 75F's along with a Paradigm subwoofer. The system has been set up using Anthem's ARC software, and I must say it works. The bass is dialed in. What I mean is that I am hearing the recording as intended. If there is a lot of bass I can her it all. Not over done, but what was intended by the recording engineer. When listening to music, you can not tell there is a sub in the room. All sound appears to come from the 2 main speakers. When I first set it up (and it is close to one of the mains) I could not even tell it was working until I took off the speaker grill and saw the driver moving.
    Having the sub does nothing for listening to recordings which have no low frequencies. But when listening to a choral work with organ accompaniment, double basses playing loud, or a bass drum the low end is staggering. Again, not over done, but what was intended.

    For most of us who can not afford to pay huge sums of money for main speakers capable of producing accurately 20-20kHz sound and the high power required to drive them, a sub is an excellent addition to a fine set of stereo speakers. Why not hear what was originally recorded?



    You nailed right in the head Joe B - is all about extension and of course calibration as you mentioned ( I think you called it "Dialed-in" ) - Yes, is all about smooth reproduction at the right level and it can be made to work

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Moon View Post
    You seem to be implying that by adding subs, you are adding excessive bass.

    This is absolutely not true. Unless of course one chooses to crank up the sub louder than the main speakers.
    Another great comment - Simon also hit it right in the head - people seem to be confusing proer hi-fi use of subwoofers with home theatre application . Indeed, in home theatres, the subwoofer's job seems to be to shake the ground. If that is all you know, indeed you will think that subwoofers have no place in music reproduction

    That is not the case in hi-fi - as Joe said, properly calibrated ( and I have done so to mine rig, using both software and SPL level dedicated measuring devices) subwoofers do nothing more than they should.

    And yes in mos CM recordings that means it will have not to much to do, compared to pop and jazz. I think in all these years, other than organ recordings and the timpani thack in Verdi's Dies Irae from the requiem, haven't heard my subwoofer be too noticeable in CM... on the other hand, you can notice the support it gives to the low strings, for example...



    v

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •