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Thread: Symphonic Prelude in E major

  1. #16
    Member Jacob Brooks's Avatar
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    I am the sole executor of my own judgement, and in that way yes!

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  3. #17
    Senior Member shirime's Avatar
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    Pastiches are great as a learning tool, and this is a great study in Bruckner's style. Do you hope to compose music for musicians as well? As far as Bruckner goes, you could convince me that this piece is something he wrote but tossed aside as not suitable for one of his big symphonies, so kudos to your understanding of his style. It's certainly less sophisticated and more 'regular' in phrasing and harmony than his published works, so there's always more you can do to show a greater understanding of Bruckner's style, I guess.

    I agree with Jacob Brooks that this music is very derivative, but my guess is that you aren't trying to compose original music but just pastiches to understand 19th century style without the intention of originality. It's certainly worth getting feedback on pastiches, and they are always a great learning tool, but I wouldn't say it is a true composition by dzc4627 as much as it isn't a true composition by Bruckner. A good pastiche and a great exercise in historical styles is more in line with what it actually is.

    Keep composing, keep expanding your knowledge. I look forward to more music from you; perhaps something more 'you' next time?

    Last edited by shirime; Jul-07-2018 at 05:11.

  4. #18
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirime View Post
    Pastiches are great as a learning tool, and this is a great study in Bruckner's style. Do you hope to compose music for musicians as well? As far as Bruckner goes, you could convince me that this piece is something he wrote but tossed aside as not suitable for one of his big symphonies, so kudos to your understanding of his style. It's certainly less sophisticated and more 'regular' in phrasing and harmony than his published works, so there's always more you can do to show a greater understanding of Bruckner's style, I guess.

    I agree with Jacob Brooks that this music is very derivative, but my guess is that you aren't trying to compose original music but just pastiches to understand 19th century style without the intention of originality. It's certainly worth getting feedback on pastiches, and they are always a great learning tool, but I wouldn't say it is a true composition by dzc4627 as much as it isn't a true composition by Bruckner. A good pastiche and a great exercise in historical styles is more in line with what it actually is.

    Keep composing, keep expanding your knowledge. I look forward to more music from you; perhaps something more 'you' next time?

    This is music for musicians. What on earth are you suggesting asking otherwise? Shall I add more gritty dissonances that make the stomachs of audiences churn?

    As somewhat of an expert on the Brucknerian idiom, I find it hilarious that you could mistake this for Bruckner and it demonstrates a lack of knowledge on your part. Every Bruckner symphony past 5 employs only regular phrasing via his metric regulation so I'd suggest you reconsider your comments on that!

    Much of the music is of my own inspiration, in fact I'd say most. Would you call Beethoven's early symphonies pastiche? Mozart's Piano Concerti in the wake of JC Bach? Tomás Luis de Victoria's motets in the wake of Palestrina? Bruckner's idiom is so vast and unique that I'd say elements could be revived in a way that makes the composer not a creator of pastiche, but a creator of beauty achieved via elements unrecognized by most of the musical canon that followed. If that's pastiche, so be it!

    Please, spare me the patronizing. I don't want to compose "me." I want to create music! Bach had no interested in painting himself... neither did the rest of the Masters. It's not about leaving a selfish mark on history. It's about crafting music with integrity.

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  6. #19
    Senior Member shirime's Avatar
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    I was unaware of your status as a Bruckner expert, actually. I'd love to read some things you have to say about Bruckner! Do you have any publications? I am gradually becoming a fan of his works and I'd love to learn from an expert.

    I didn't mention anything about 'gritty dissonances' but if you write the music you want to write then I would suspect that after a while there will be many more individual traits that will make you stand out as a brilliant composer. Simply by composing you will reveal yourself and your interests. I hope you don't ever consider the act of composing as a 'selfish' thing!

    You said it was a homage to Bruckner and his style, and I commented that this is a good pastiche and I honestly think it shows a great affection to his music, even if it isn't stylistically the most accurate presentation of it. You will only reveal yourself if you compose music for music's sake, which is what it sounds like you want to do anyway. Yes this is a pastiche because it is a composition in a historical idiom. You speak as if that is a bad thing, but I most certainly do not agree that it is.

    Because you write music for musicians, I am curious to know what musicians have you written for and do you have any recordings by them? What have they told you about your music? I wish you many fantastic performances in the future!

  7. #20
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirime View Post
    I was unaware of your status as a Bruckner expert, actually. I'd love to read some things you have to say about Bruckner! Do you have any publications? I am gradually becoming a fan of his works and I'd love to learn from an expert.

    I didn't mention anything about 'gritty dissonances' but if you write the music you want to write then I would suspect that after a while there will be many more individual traits that will make you stand out as a brilliant composer. Simply by composing you will reveal yourself and your interests. I hope you don't ever consider the act of composing as a 'selfish' thing!

    You said it was a homage to Bruckner and his style, and I commented that this is a good pastiche and I honestly think it shows a great affection to his music, even if it isn't stylistically the most accurate presentation of it. You will only reveal yourself if you compose music for music's sake, which is what it sounds like you want to do anyway. Yes this is a pastiche because it is a composition in a historical idiom. You speak as if that is a bad thing, but I most certainly do not agree that it is.

    Because you write music for musicians, I am curious to know what musicians have you written for and do you have any recordings by them? What have they told you about your music? I wish you many fantastic performances in the future!
    A novice expert, I should clarify. My ideas have the approval of such Brucknerian scholars as William Carragan (a famous completion-er of the unfinished 9th) and Benjamin Korstvedt, who I've consulted privately and discussed Brucknerian matters with at length. My ideas on the Bruckner 9 adagio and Brucknerian adagios at large will also be featured in Alonso del Arte's updated publication on Bruckner's unfinished 9th and its finale, the author of which I have corresponded to frequently and shared my works with. What I lack in scholarly publications I can make up for in a vast knowledge of nearly every of his symphonies and vocal works. Ask away.

    For live recordings I will refer you as such:
    Largo for Orchestra, 2016
    http://www.youngcomposerschallenge.o..._Orchestra.mp3

    Fantasy for Orchestra, 2017
    http://www.youngcomposerschallenge.o..._Orchestra.mp3

    Piano Trio for Piano, Clarinet, and Violin
    Piano Trio for Piano, Violin, and Clarinet

    Adagio Pathetique for Flute and Piano
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmHbRNHAesU

    Some excerpts from a juvenile Sonata for Violin and Piano:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAqAnervE8

    Many of these works I have outgrown, but they demonstrate my past of writing music for specific musicians as you emphasize. Namely, Jenny Lehtonen: Flautist of the Cincinatti College Conservatory, Alan Chen: Violinist of the University of Austin Texas, Kaiyuan Wu: concerto competition winning violinist of the San Francisco Conservatory of Music (the school I attend), Sahand S. Nobakht: clarinetist attending SFCM as well. And of course the Orlando Philharmonic, with their performances of the two orchestral works listed.

    While it has elements of pastiche, I'd maintain that the work is far removed from Bruckner to where I can safely consider it my own work, in the same way Mozart could claim his piano concerti as his own creative output, not pastiche of JC Bach. Same with the violin sonatas on behalf of Schubert from Mozart, &c.

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  9. #21
    Senior Member shirime's Avatar
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    Thanks for this! I'm enjoying listening to your works.

    I'll send you a PM about Bruckner at some stage.

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  11. #22
    Senior Member dzc4627's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirime View Post
    Thanks for this! I'm enjoying listening to your works.

    I'll send you a PM about Bruckner at some stage.
    Please do. Expect nothing less than a few paragraphs!

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  13. #23
    Junior Member tvparty's Avatar
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    Very impressive work, dzc... 'Fantasy for Orchestra' especially. That is quite brilliant.

  14. #24
    Senior Member Alkan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzc4627 View Post
    I personally enjoy the immediacy of the main theme. Even an extra bar of tremolo would feel excessive and ruin the metric regularity I have going throughout nearly all of the piece.
    I enjoyed this piece. Bruckner, for sure, and sounding like Wagner in a couple of places. Well done overall, and hopefully you will continue to build on your Bruckner foundation. However, I agree with Phil that the opening is too abrupt. You should reconsider that "extra bar of tremolo".

  15. #25
    Member Jacob Brooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dzc4627 View Post
    Please, spare me the patronizing. I don't want to compose "me." I want to create music! Bach had no interested in painting himself... neither did the rest of the Masters. It's not about leaving a selfish mark on history. It's about crafting music with integrity.
    It is about leaving a "selfish mark" in the sense that you are going to extreme efforts to manifest in music your vision of life and experience (what music is about). It isn't about leaving a "selfish mark" in the sense of the mark being autobiographical, somehow "representing oneself." I'm pretty sure you agree with this but I just wanted to clarify that last paragraph. Feel free to disagree... after all music is just a matter of taste..... ;-)

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