Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 23 of 23

Thread: Johann Jakob Froberger (1616 - 1667)

  1. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myriadi View Post
    I haven't heard his Byrd, but seeing as this is a Froberger guestbook, I'll venture to say I never enjoyed Egarr's Froberger. I remember being grateful to him for recording a complete set, though.
    I like Egarr's cd 3 a lot. I still think he's the best complete Froberger, largely because I'm not keen on Asperen on organ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myriadi View Post
    I might be biased since I loathe every Moroney record I've ever heard (well, almost - certainly the solo keyboard ones), but this sounds a little silly to me. That keyboard tradition arose primarily thanks to (and amidst) the much older lute tradition, and every single composer involved in the French school - be it Couperin or Froberger - couldn't help being influenced by the Parisian lute school, the same way Frescobaldi couldn't ignore Kapsberger's toccatas, and earlier Italian organists most certainly did not ignore the lutenists of their day.
    Well yes, of course. As far as I know only the French wrote unmeasured keyboard music and it's highly plausible to say that they did so partly because they were inspired by a lute practice, especially given that the keyboard composers were aware of Blancrocher, Mesangeau and Pierre Gaultier.

    Unfortunately I just can't get hold of Moroney's paper on unmeasured preludes to get clearer about what exactly he's saying. One thing I did find is that he argues that the inspiration for Louis Couperin's Prelude in imitation of Froberger was the first toccata in Frescobaldi's 1649 book. I can imagine he's right about that.
    Last edited by Mandryka; May-29-2018 at 21:48.

  2. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Can I ask a question? What exactly is a tombeau? Is it a celebration, a mourning piece, or what?

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Can I ask a question? What exactly is a tombeau? Is it a celebration, a mourning piece, or what?

    It can not be said better than in this Wiki quote:

    A tombeau (plural tombeaux) is a musical composition (earlier, in the early 16th century, a poem) commemorating the death of a notable individual. The term derives from the French word for "tomb" or "tombstone". The vast majority of tombeaux date from the 17th century and were composed for lute or other plucked string instruments. The genre gradually fell out of use during the 18th century, but reappeared in the early 20th.

  4. Likes Taggart, Ingélou liked this post
  5. #19
    Senior Member Myriadi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    272
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    I like Egarr's cd 3 a lot. I still think he's the best complete Froberger, largely because I'm not keen on Asperen on organ.
    Ah, I'm not too fond of Asperen's set myself. I wish Leonhardt recorded more Froberger, or Kenneth Gilbert - I like their interpretations best. I've only heard two organ discs of Froberger - Kelemen's and Coudurier's. I haven't listened to them in a while - I believe they both had their share of good and bad qualities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Well yes, of course. As far as I know only the French wrote unmeasured keyboard music and it's highly plausible to say that they did so partly because they were inspired by a lute practice, especially given that the keyboard composers were aware of Blancrocher, Mesangeau and Pierre Gaultier.
    Absolutely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Unfortunately I just can't get hold of Moroney's paper on unmeasured preludes to get clearer about what exactly he's saying. One thing I did find is that he argues that the inspiration for Louis Couperin's Prelude in imitation of Froberger was the first toccata in Frescobaldi's 1649 book. I can imagine he's right about that.
    "Or - as the kids today would say - like, any of the pieces Froberger played for the guy in Paris when they were hanging out, dude."

    Seriously though, it'd be nice to see an exact quote for this as well

  6. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I've picked up from general reading that he argues that specifically preludes 1,3,6 and 12 are related to Italian toccatas.

  7. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by premont View Post
    It can not be said better than in this Wiki quote:

    A tombeau (plural tombeaux) is a musical composition (earlier, in the early 16th century, a poem) commemorating the death of a notable individual. The term derives from the French word for "tomb" or "tombstone".
    Moroney wrote somewhere that he sees these things as musical burials. And so the famous scale at the end of Froberger's Blancrocher tombeau isn't the poor chap falling down a flight of stairs (clumsy), it's rather his soul descending into the underworld (noble.)
    Last edited by Mandryka; May-30-2018 at 07:08.

  8. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,183
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    Moroney wrote somewhere that he sees these things as musical burials.
    This may be a subtle distinction. When one attends a burial the purpose is of course to say a last goodbye to the deceased individual but also to commemorate him/her.

  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,358
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandryka View Post
    largely because I'm not keen on Asperen on organ.


    .
    I regret saying that.

    Over the past couple of days I've been listening to Asperen playing the Capriccios. When you hear them all presented together like this, played on a good instrument, it does sound as major a polyphonic cycle as Frescobaldi's Capriccios. Asperen compares it to AoF in fact in that it contains exhaustive explorations of the contrapuntal possibilities of a single theme.

    Anyway I think this recording of Asperen on organ is pretty interesting

    AE10701-Froberger-Johann-Jacob-Capriccio_large.jpg

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •