Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 24 of 24

Thread: Was Beethoven the first Romantic composer?

  1. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,269
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    People in the future always want to read history backwards though as if it's progressing inevitably towards something. But art arguably is more about building on what has gone before, there is very little that is completely new, most things are influenced by what has gone before in some way. Sonata form seems to have been something of a new idea as the baroque era eventually gave way, although even some baroque ideas were probably transformed or used in new ways in the classical era.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Bach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasa View Post
    This doesn't hold up for Chopin. The only music with program he wrote was his Ballades (poems by Mickiewicz, at least that's what Schumann tells us), and his songs.

    It's definitely a romantic source of inspiration, but it won't serve as a definition.
    Maybe it should be searched in the extension of the forms (both extending the exiting ones and the creation of new ones: ballades, fantaisies, nocuturnes...), style of construction (less defined phrases...) and the extention of harmony (9th, 11th...)
    No, it does apply to Chopin - his music might not be programmatic but it is composed with a huge number of non-functional, unessential notes for the purpose of colour and emotion rather than the utilitarian diatonicism found in much classical and baroque music.
    Si vos agnosco is tunc vos es quoque erudio

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,269
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Programmatic music was around for a while, Vivaldi's 4 Seasons was based on poems. Ok it was more popular in the 19th century, but still not maybe revolutionary.

    The unessential notes idea is interesting, but does that mean composers like Brahms, Dvorak, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky or even Schumann are closer to Wagner than to Beethoven? I'm not sure I would think so. Surely the classical style developed beyond the high classical.

    An impressionistic style did perhaps develop alongside the 19th century classical style. Wagner, Debussy, Scriabin... Perhaps this became one of the strands of modern classical music alongside serialism, the modern classic style etc. In other words more than one style can exist in an era.
    Last edited by starry; Jun-04-2009 at 19:38.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Bach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Chopin used more unessential notes than all of the composers you just listed. They're more inclined towards chromatic alteration - much like Beethoven.
    Si vos agnosco is tunc vos es quoque erudio

  5. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,269
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Didn't Chopin love Mozart though? I wonder if he liked Mozart's Fantasia in C minor....
    Last edited by starry; Jun-04-2009 at 20:02.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Bach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,100
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I love Mozart, but my music is atonal.
    Si vos agnosco is tunc vos es quoque erudio

  7. #22
    Member Yosser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    85
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    The Hammerklavier is in Beethoven's late style - unique - neither classical or romantic, nobody really attempted to imitate this style or take it any further (if that was ever, indeed, possible).
    We can agree on that!

  8. #23
    Member Yosser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    85
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emiellucifuge View Post
    I always consider Beethoven to be largely into the romantic style of thinking. I mostly listen to his symphonies but i think they are th best examples of this, their style are so far ahead from the symphonies of say.. Mozart or Haydn. (barring maybe 1-4)
    Erm, was that a mistype? The Eroica is widely regarded as one of the great breakthroughs in musical form. It is this symphony that marks a clean break between Beethoven and his predecessors. The 4th may be light in tone -- Beethoven liked to mix it up --- but can you name a prior orchestral work that matches it for sheer wit?

  9. #24
    Senior Member Cyclops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Darlington
    Posts
    392
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chi_town/Philly View Post
    I think I missed all the action as it were but hmm from what I've seen that Nicola seemed to have stirred up quite a storm on one or two occasions!
    And all those moments are soon lost,like tears in the rain•••

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 23
    Last Post: Nov-14-2018, 03:41
  2. Replies: 42
    Last Post: Jan-24-2018, 16:44
  3. The Late Quartets of Ludwig Van Beethoven
    By Bach in forum Classical Music Discussion
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: Feb-14-2011, 01:15
  4. Record Valuation Help...
    By oldpiman in forum Recorded Music and Publications
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun-07-2008, 09:35

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •