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Thread: Orchestral Hymn

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    Default Orchestral Hymn

    I composed this hymn.
    Hope you like it.

    Feel free to comment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Ai-vq1YqM
    Last edited by mediumaevum; Jun-11-2018 at 08:15.

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Nice pic. It's a nice pastoral sound setting. There seemed to be a couple rushed notes in the rhythm of the hymn melody when it is first introduced, and some of the voice parts only played a few notes of the melody before handing off to another voice, while I think should be used more as accompaniment. But is an interesting effect.
    Last edited by Phil loves classical; Jun-11-2018 at 01:20.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member MarkMcD's Avatar
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    Very nice. As Phil said, very pastoral. I don't think I have a problem with the voicing, it all sounded lovely. However, I think it sounds as though there should be more. I'm sure there is material there to make a more full piece, if that's the word I want. Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like an introduction to something bigger, or perhaps a section from a bigger piece, but in any case, for me, it stopped to soon, (which can only be a good thing if your audience wants more, right)?

    Regards
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMcD View Post
    Very nice. As Phil said, very pastoral. I don't think I have a problem with the voicing, it all sounded lovely. However, I think it sounds as though there should be more. I'm sure there is material there to make a more full piece, if that's the word I want. Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like an introduction to something bigger, or perhaps a section from a bigger piece, but in any case, for me, it stopped to soon, (which can only be a good thing if your audience wants more, right)?

    Regards
    Mark
    Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I have also been thinking about expanding on the piece, to make a symphonic-like piece of it.

    However, I might need your help on this. What does it take to turn this into a symphony?
    I have never made a symphony, but I really want to write one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mediumaevum View Post
    Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I have also been thinking about expanding on the piece, to make a symphonic-like piece of it.

    However, I might need your help on this. What does it take to turn this into a symphony?
    I have never made a symphony, but I really want to write one.
    All it really takes to write a symphony is a few themes and some knowledge of the form.

    Writing a good symphony is substantially more difficult, but can be done.

    I go by a simple structure: Fast Slow Fast. Sometimes I vary it. Within each movement, i usually follow an ABba structure, where I repeat the A and B themes at the second half of the movement, but modulated. Sometimes I also follow the whole Verse bridge chorus verse bridge chorus coda structure as well.

    Of course, you could even make your symphony structureless.

    It's up to you, really.

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    Senior Member MarkMcD's Avatar
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    A symphony is BIG project, I'm not sure I would tackle one personally just yet. However, There is certainly room for expansion and experimentation with the piece. Some of the things I do:-

    1 Identify the themes and motifs from the linking material.

    2 Turn those themes and motifs upside down, back to front, transpose them, change them from major to minor, expand or reduce some note lengths to produce a similar profile but with different timing, or changing some pitches in the theme or motif to give an augmented or diminished feel to the theme.

    3 Write pages of the stuff, don't bother to link it until you have lots of passages you like. Often when you're doing this, music will just suggest itself to you. Once you've changed a theme, it doesn't want to follow the same path out as it did before so follow it and see where it goes. I also often transpose the whole thing, (temporarily) because in a new key, it sounds different and gives you new ideas.

    4 move onto the link material, the modulations to other keys, the variations in tempo, and start to put it together with your favourite reinterpretations of the themes and motifs you've created. It can be rough at this stage.

    5 Once you're happy with the skeleton you've created, then you can go in and start to flesh it out, edit out bit's your not sure about, and maybe expand parts you like. Try not to have exact repeats. If a repeat is needed, just give it slight twist the second time round.

    Other than that, just have fun.

    Kind regards
    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMcD View Post
    A symphony is BIG project, I'm not sure I would tackle one personally just yet. However, There is certainly room for expansion and experimentation with the piece. Some of the things I do:-

    1 Identify the themes and motifs from the linking material.

    2 Turn those themes and motifs upside down, back to front, transpose them, change them from major to minor, expand or reduce some note lengths to produce a similar profile but with different timing, or changing some pitches in the theme or motif to give an augmented or diminished feel to the theme.

    3 Write pages of the stuff, don't bother to link it until you have lots of passages you like. Often when you're doing this, music will just suggest itself to you. Once you've changed a theme, it doesn't want to follow the same path out as it did before so follow it and see where it goes. I also often transpose the whole thing, (temporarily) because in a new key, it sounds different and gives you new ideas.

    4 move onto the link material, the modulations to other keys, the variations in tempo, and start to put it together with your favourite reinterpretations of the themes and motifs you've created. It can be rough at this stage.

    5 Once you're happy with the skeleton you've created, then you can go in and start to flesh it out, edit out bit's your not sure about, and maybe expand parts you like. Try not to have exact repeats. If a repeat is needed, just give it slight twist the second time round.

    Other than that, just have fun.

    Kind regards
    Mark
    I honestly have a difficult time writing symphonic compositions that AREN'T symphonies.
    I feel like having a loose guideline makes it easier to be creative within it, whereas a format-less piece can be difficult to conceive while still being within a suitable time-frame.

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediumaevum View Post
    Thanks, I'm glad you like it. I have also been thinking about expanding on the piece, to make a symphonic-like piece of it.

    However, I might need your help on this. What does it take to turn this into a symphony?
    I have never made a symphony, but I really want to write one.
    With the material present, I personally don't think a symphony would be suitable, but rather a shorter symphonic tone poem and orchestrating around the theme and a bit of variation. There is a straightforwardness that would get lost in a symphony and change the character. But if it is a symphony must have, I recommend Harty's Irish Symphony and Ivanov's Symphony 3 (especially 2nd movement) which has hymn or folk like melodies.
    Last edited by Phil loves classical; Jun-12-2018 at 17:33.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member MarkMcD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E Cristobal Poveda View Post
    I honestly have a difficult time writing symphonic compositions that AREN'T symphonies.
    I feel like having a loose guideline makes it easier to be creative within it, whereas a format-less piece can be difficult to conceive while still being within a suitable time-frame.
    I know what you mean. I was just thinking that 15, 20 mins of music is a lot to do and keep up the necessary momentum throughout. I do think a guide line or sketch is a good idea, I usually have one at least. Going in without a rough format usually ends up being a bit chaotic, but it's important to have all your material roughed out before you start trying to put it together. However, it's whatever works for the individual I suppose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    With the material present, I personally don't think a symphony would be suitable, but rather a shorter symphonic tone poem and orchestrating around the theme and a bit of variation. There is a straightforwardness that would get lost in a symphony and change the character. But if it is a symphony must have, I recommend Harty's Irish Symphony and Ivanov's Symphony 3 (especially 2nd movement) which has hymn or folk like melodies.
    I also agree that this is probably the better way to go with this piece too Phil.

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    I have been working on expanding the piece.
    Please tell me if this works well or not and what can be improved.
    https://soundcloud.com/mediumaevum-a...the-revelation

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    I think you extended the theme nicely to the 2:00 mark. The thing that sticks out to me the most is the nice melody on the flute around :55 to 1:00 that seems to lead to nice variation, but gets cut short by restating the main theme. I would build on that flute part there. The episode around 2:00 to 2:30 seems a bit isolated from the main theme. I would like to hear it integrated some more with a more interesting transition. I'd leave out the cymbal crashes at 2:35 and 3:20 personally.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    I think you extended the theme nicely to the 2:00 mark. The thing that sticks out to me the most is the nice melody on the flute around :55 to 1:00 that seems to lead to nice variation, but gets cut short by restating the main theme. I would build on that flute part there. The episode around 2:00 to 2:30 seems a bit isolated from the main theme. I would like to hear it integrated some more with a more interesting transition. I'd leave out the cymbal crashes at 2:35 and 3:20 personally.
    How can I make a better transition? I always struggle with the transition parts, I find it very difficult.

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    Junior Member tvparty's Avatar
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    Lovely. Followed & liked.

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    Senior Member MarkMcD's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I think you've done a lovely job there. It's much more melodious and I really like the transition to the minor section, it marks a change in scene and personally I don't think it needs smoothing out.
    I'm wondering if there isn't room to fill out the flute part, there seems to me to be space to have a really lovely melody floating over the top of the re-entry of the first theme.

    I think it's worth carrying on with, it has a really nice feel to it and I'm sure you can make something really nice out of it.

    But let me give another piece of advice. We are only voicing opinions, please only change something if YOU think it needs to be changed. It's your music, you should be the one driving the vision.

    Kind regards
    Mark

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