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Thread: Where nazi into ''degenerated'' art-form classical Hitler like because 100% german?

  1. #16
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    That would imply that anything related to the atrocities Un has committed against his people will change, which it won’t.

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    While Hitler and the Nazis were utterly opposed to what was then avant-garde music and art , their idol Wagner was originally an avant-garde iconoclast himself . Oh the irony !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Gunston View Post
    Will North Korean composers now emerge from behind closed doors
    Isang Yun might fit the category.
    Liberty for wolves is death to the lambs.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by science View Post
    Isang Yun might fit the category.
    Absolutely right, except that it was South Korea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isang_Yun#Kidnapping


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    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superhorn View Post
    While Hitler and the Nazis were utterly opposed to what was then avant-garde music and art , their idol Wagner was originally an avant-garde iconoclast himself . Oh the irony !
    I think it's worth stating that Wagner was only an idol of Hitler and not Nazis in general. There are pictures of Nazis goons going into Bayreuth to fulfil Hitler's wishes and look as if they are going to the dentist.

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    Senior Member chill782002's Avatar
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    A concert programme from Nazi Germany would generally have been made up of various combinations of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Weber, Schubert, Wagner, Bruckner and Brahms along with perhaps some composers from allied/occupied nations (Sibelius, Bartok, Dvorak, various Italian baroque composers etc). On certain rare occasions possibly a work by Russian composers who could be definitely proven not to have communist sympathies (Rachmaninov, Stravinsky etc). In the case of more modern composers, only their more tonal works would have been permitted, as in the case of my earlier point re Stravinsky.

    Interesting to consider that this was, in a way, paralleled at the same time in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Dissonance was not encouraged as this was seen as a sign of "bourgeois decadence" and a departure from the approved format of "socialist realism", i.e. the production of works that could easily be comprehended by the proletarian masses. Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District" very nearly resulted in the composer being sent to the gulag after Stalin allegedly walked out of a performance and he only redeemed himself with the much more tonal Symphony No 5.

    Clearly both dictators did not appreciate music that was not obviously tonal with clear melodies and official policy was made to reflect their own personal tastes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chill782002 View Post
    A concert programme from Nazi Germany would generally have been made up of various combinations of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Weber, Schubert, Wagner, Bruckner and Brahms along with perhaps some composers from allied/occupied nations (Sibelius, Bartok, Dvorak, various Italian baroque composers etc). On certain rare occasions possibly a work by Russian composers who could be definitely proven not to have communist sympathies (Rachmaninov, Stravinsky etc). In the case of more modern composers, only their more tonal works would have been permitted, as in the case of my earlier point re Stravinsky.

    Interesting to consider that this was, in a way, paralleled at the same time in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Dissonance was not encouraged as this was seen as a sign of "bourgeois decadence" and a departure from the approved format of "socialist realism", i.e. the production of works that could easily be comprehended by the proletarian masses. Shostakovich's "Lady Macbeth of the Mtsensk District" very nearly resulted in the composer being sent to the gulag after Stalin allegedly walked out of a performance and he only redeemed himself with the much more tonal Symphony No 5.

    Clearly both dictators did not appreciate music that was not obviously tonal with clear melodies and official policy was made to reflect their own personal tastes.
    It was more than their personal tastes. Stalin particularly wanted music that would uplift the masses, promote Socialism, etc. There was to be no music produced for its own sake...it was supposed to glorify the State and not confuse the common man with complexity

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    Senior Member chill782002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triplets View Post
    It was more than their personal tastes. Stalin particularly wanted music that would uplift the masses, promote Socialism, etc. There was to be no music produced for its own sake...it was supposed to glorify the State and not confuse the common man with complexity
    You are right of course although Stalin seems to have had little interest in overt propaganda works (Shostakovich's Symphony No 2 ("To October") and "The Sun Shines Over Our Motherland", Prokofiev's "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution" and "Zdravitsa" (which, incidentally, was written in honour of Stalin's 60th birthday)) and much preferred Mozart and Tchaikovsky, if his biographers are to be believed.

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    Senior Member manyene's Avatar
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    The use of the word 'degenerate' illustrates the way that social Darwinism had embedded itself in Nazi terminology to an extreme, if not psychotic degree, fuelled by the belief that societies that failed to advance by conquest were doomed to become decadent.

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