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Thread: Dont ask me to choose who a better composer between Dufay & Josquin here my answer?

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    Senior Member deprofundis's Avatar
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    Default Dont ask me to choose who a better composer between Dufay & Josquin here my answer?

    I love Dufay mainly for his outstanding missa and lovely chanson, his motets are decents but they dont rival Josquin in paralel, Josquin wrote more elaborated motets in my eyye's dufay iisorythmic motets is great dont get me wrong but Josquin in my eye did better motets , perhaps no isorythmic motets but , pure magic,, Josquin missa were incredible , his chanson i like em less than dufay.

    So see whit all of this i can't chose who i like more since i both listen to them daily and were one composer lack the other is his logical continuity, in a sense JOsquin came afterward so he could possibly be inspired by Dufay.

    There the same shoes sizes dont expect me to dismiss one over the other , i would say blasphemy!
    I can't , and wont do it , out of principal out of merits, there equal in ''grandeure"" or greatness.

    Probably the same crowd that like Dufay like Josquin too and vice versa see..
    Or you preffered one over the other , your reason most be very solid, rational, factual?

    live once, life short , live whit passion and music is the catalyst of it all- deprofundis quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by deprofundis View Post
    There the same shoes sizes
    WTF? Pointure? C'est n'importe quoi en anglais et presque surréaliste en plus. "Shoe size" veut dire la taille de vos chaussures et rien d'autre. Il faut dire "greatness" , "importance" or something like that. Une grosse pointure= a big cheese, so you could just say "Josquin and Dufay were both big cheeses" mais c'est lourd et ringard.
    Last edited by Mandryka; Jun-12-2018 at 09:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deprofundis View Post

    Probably the same crowd that like Dufay like Josquin too and vice versa see..
    Or you preffered one over the other , your reason most be very solid, rational, factual?

    I haven't had a conflict in preference between the two because they are from different eras. It's like preferring Mozart to Brahms; it's two different styles. But I have to admit, I haven't taken to Dufay's isorhythmic motets like I have Josquin's motets.

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    Member Gallus's Avatar
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    It has to be Josquin: there's that fine polish to everything he wrote, which I find just extraordinary. Whereas I can't get enough of Josquin's pervasive imitation, Dufay feels to me as if he's only just emerging from the medieval period, as in his isorhythmic motets like Manxfeeder said.

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    What an impossible question, deprofundis! ;-0 If forced to choose, in a fire, well... um, I'd probably waste too much time agonizing between the two that I'd burn to death.

    As for 'rankings', I'm reminded of the old claim that 'after Shakespeare and Dante there is no third'. It derives from T.S. Eliot, a genius himself, who wrote, "Dante and Shakespeare divide the world between them. There is no third." In regards to the late Middle Ages and Renaissance, I'd likewise claim that after Dufay and Josquin there is no third. I suppose others might name Machaut, Ciconia, Ockeghem, Obrecht, Mouton, Lassus, Tallis, Byrd, and so on--all great, yes. But in my view, Dufay and Josquin stand alone.

    If forced to choose, I'd probably take Josquin. Why? I listen to his music a bit more. I need his music more. In difficult hours, Josquin nourishes my spirit, my soul, a bit more than Dufay. I also buy virtually every new Josquin CD that comes out--that's how crazy I am about his music. Josquin is one of my top 5 favorite composers, while Dufay is in my top 10. Though I'll buy most new Dufay releases as well, and I can't say that about any other two composers. (Granted, Dufay and Josquin are under recorded compared to other giants, such as Bach & Mozart.)

    In the battle of motets, my four favorite Dufay motets are "Flos Florum", "Nuper Rosarum Flores", "Lamentatio sanctae matris ecclesiae Constantinopolitanae", and "O sancte Sebastiane":




    https://www.amazon.com/Lamentatio-sa...ple+lamentatio

    While my four favorite Josquin motets are, "Inviolata, integra, et casta es Maria a 5", "La deploration de Johannes Ockeghem", "Ave Maria... Virgo serena", and "Miserere, mei Deus":



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dksh...BWuhd4&index=8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh_WD_cLrRY

    Which are better? It's impossible to say. These are among the very finest motets of the Renaissance, IMO (along with Mouton's "Nesciens mater", the "Penitential Psalms" of Lassus, and "Miserere" and "Spem in Alium" by Tallis). However, since "Inviolata, integra, et casta es Maria" is the music that I'd most like to be sung at my funeral (preferably by the Orlando Consort!), I'll pick Josquin.

    As for their chansons, Dufay was probably the better composer of secular songs.

    As for their Masses, let's call it a draw. In truth, I feel honored and blessed to be able to listen to the music of both geniuses.

    Here are four of my favorite desert island discs:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxE...k3Twvwvf3wTe2O
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gab...lXzkK_3HmjUubD
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwmrG-b3SHg
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMcp...zK4fa5a_V-Sx09
    Last edited by Josquin13; Jun-15-2018 at 00:27.

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