Classical Music Forum banner

Prokofiev Piano Concerto 2

17K views 63 replies 24 participants last post by  Kreisler jr 
#1 ·
One of the great piano concerti. Which are your favourite versions?

I'll kick off with a selection:
Kissin/Philh/Ashkenazy
Rana/RAI/Slobodeniouk
Krainev/Frankfurt/Kitaenko
Postnikova/USSR SSO/Rozhdestvensky
Berezovsky/Moscow Conservatoire/Temirkanov - 2016
Cherkassky/Philh/Menges
Cherkassky/LPO/Nagano
Bolet/Amer. SO/Stokowski 1971
Henriot-Schweitzer/BPO/Munch
Gutierrez/CGBO/Jarvi
Petrov/Swedish 1988 live
Beroff/Gewandhaus/Masur
Zak/Sanderling 1960s
Bavouzet/BBC/Noseda


I deliberately left out a few big names (Wang, Ashkenazy etc) because I preferred the above. Postnikova runs rings around Wang in this, just as one example, Rana is excellent and Henriot-Schweitzer does some original things. Despite its difficulty, this concerto doesn't scare off the good female pianists.
 
See less See more
#2 · (Edited)
My favourite of the five. Only concerto 3 comes close. I know and rate highly some of those you mention, particularly:

Kissin/Philh/Ashkenazy
Gutierrez/CGBO/Jarvi
Bavouzet/BBC/Noseda

I am alone in the world in not being that taken by Beatrice Rana (she sounds a little prosaic to my ears in this piece). One you don't mention that I rate very highly indeed is

Vinnitskaya/Berlin Deutsches Symphony Orchestra/Varga (coupled with an equally "world beating" Ravel Concerto in G):

Hand Facial expression Flash photography Sleeve Font


I also think

Vadym Kholodenko/Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra/Miguel Harth-Bedoya (coupled with a 5 that is as good as anyone I've heard except Richter)

is pretty good.
 
#3 ·
One you don't mention that I rate very highly indeed is Vinnitskaya/Berlin Deutsches Symphony Orchestra/Varga (coupled with an equally "world beating" Ravel Concerto in G)
Thanks for that - I hadn't heard her. She has plenty of rhythm and flow - impressive. I'm also impressed that she plays whole chunks of it with her eyes closed.
 
#4 · (Edited)
One of the great piano concerti. Which are your favourite versions?

I'll kick off with a selection:
Kissin/Philh/Ashkenazy
Rana/RAI/Slobodeniouk
Krainev/Frankfurt/Kitaenko
Postnikova/USSR SSO/Rozhdestvensky
Berezovsky/Moscow Conservatoire/Temirkanov - 2016
Cherkassky/Philh/Menges
Cherkassky/LPO/Nagano
Bolet/Amer. SO/Stokowski 1971
Henriot-Schweitzer/BPO/Munch
Gutierrez/CGBO/Jarvi
Petrov/Swedish 1988 live
Beroff/Gewandhaus/Masur
Zak/Sanderling 1960s
Bavouzet/BBC/Noseda

I deliberately left out a few big names (Wang, Ashkenazy etc) because I preferred the above. Postnikova runs rings around Wang in this, just as one example, Rana is excellent and Henriot-Schweitzer does some original things. Despite its difficulty, this concerto doesn't scare off the good female pianists.
A girl called Lauren Zhang played Prokofiev's Second in the grand final of BBC Young Musician of the year 2018. Don't know how "good" she was, spent 35 minutes with my jaw on the floor amazed by her virtuosity! Unbelievable!!

She won, by the way...

Sorry, but I like Ashkenazy, maybe a slight preference for Kun Woo Paik on Naxos?
 
#5 · (Edited)
A girl called Lauren Zhang played Prokofiev's Second in the grand final of BBC Young Musician of the year 2018.
Yes, indeed, and that initially caused me to trawl through the available versions. She was a worthy winner on the day, and very media-friendly as well, which probably counts these days. But I was left unsatisfied and immediately after her win turned to YT to see what I was missing, which turned out to be quite a lot!

I think Beatrice Rana was more interesting at her age - she's 8 years older now. Zhang won the BBC at 17, while Rana won the first prize and special jury prizes at the Montreal at 18. Vinnitskaya won the Jaen and audience prize at 19 and went on to win the Queen Elizabeth at age 24. Postnikova won prizes at the Chopin and Leeds, which are likewise much bigger than the BBC.

It remains to be seen how Zhang will follow up her win.
 
#6 ·
Ashkenazy for me. I judge them by how the play the first movement and finale. Some just don't have character. Wang's was the worst for me. Ashkenazy is very deliberately unrefined in the first movement, and it sounds more spontaneous and has an animalistic ferocity than some I've heard.
 
#7 ·
Ashkenazy is very deliberately unrefined in the first movement, and it sounds more spontaneous and has an animalistic ferocity than some I've heard.
If you want fierce in the first movement, try Petrov in Stockholm in 1988. He kills the first movement and sticks a fork in it. It's like an episode of "Homicide - Life on the Street".

 
#9 ·
I really do not think that barbarism is a defining feature of this work. It starts wistfully, magically and builds from there with ups and downs. Emphatic, yes, but barbarous? The second movement is lively but too banging an approach risks killing it (and can sound like a cover for inadequate virtuosity). The third movement does have space for barbarism and the last movement is intense. There is a lot in this concerto and I guess many approaches can work, but only so long as they don't leave out too many of the various nuances.

Meanwhile, I've just thought of another recording that is pretty good:

Kirill Gerstein/Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin/James Gaffigan. This is sadly coupled with (another) Tchaik 1 - but at least it provides a fairly unique take on it.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I really do not think that barbarism is a defining feature of this work. It starts wistfully, magically and builds from there with ups and downs. Emphatic, yes, but barbarous?
I don't even think that that the first sections need be all that emphatic. But like you say, the mystery and magic is not negotiable. Prokofiev was very good at this (Visions Fugitives) and it's in most of his work. For the mystery and magic I'd go for pianists like Rana, Cherkassky/Menges, Krainev, Gutierrez, Postnikova, Nicole Henriot-Schweitzer/Munch, Bolet/Stokowski. These are most of my preferred versions anyway. Bolet probably sounds the closest to how Prokofiev himself played. It's a bit uncanny sometimes.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have very little experience with Prokofiev. I have the complete box from Bronfman on Sony - It contains all the piano concertos and all the piano sonatas. +something called "Overture on Hebrew Themes".
The box is part of a good series of dirt cheap boxes from Sony.

Forehead Chin Hairstyle Eyebrow Facial expression
 
#19 ·
I have very little experience with Prokofiev. I have the complete box from Bronfman on Sony - It contains all the piano concertos and all the piano sonatas. +something called "Overture on Hebrew Themes".
The box is part of a good series of dirt cheap boxes from Sony.

View attachment 105498
I've got that set too. I found his War Sonatas a bit underpowered and ponderous, for those I go with Richter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ras
#13 · (Edited)
#14 ·
There's a much earlier recording by Jorge Bolet I remember liking a lot better than the one from the 1970s.

As an aside, I believe this work has some great music but the first movement is kinda overwrought and smacks too much of Rachmaninov for my taste... The third movement is unarguably brilliant though. Personally, I find the three piano concerti that followed both more original and better structured.
 
#15 ·
There's a much earlier recording by Jorge Bolet I remember liking a lot better than the one from the 1970s.

As an aside, I believe this work has some great music but the first movement is kinda overwrought and smacks too much of Rachmaninov for my taste... The third movement is unarguably brilliant though. Personally, I find the three piano concerti that followed both more original and better structured.
The early Bolet with Stokowski is the best, like you say. Sounds spookily like Prokofiev himself at the piano. For the other concerti I listen a lot to #3. Mostly Byron Janis and Prokofiev himself, plus Richter in 5. You're ahead of me in #4. Never really listened to that. I listen a lot to the sonatas and Visions Fugitives.

In answer to Josquin, there is indeed a lot of love for Browning especially among Americans who hold him dear. I don't think this is one of his better recordings, but that's just me. I wish Prokofiev himself had recorded #2. And Argerich maybe. Samson Francois definitely.
 
#16 · (Edited)
I got into the 4th (the left-hand concerto) through this recording by Prokofiev's musical assistant and Richter's two-piano partner, the brilliant Anatoly Vedernikov (Prokofiev's 6th PC, which survived in sketches only, was for two pianos, dedicated to Richter and Vedernikov).



It's an obscure work that isn't as rewarding on first listen as many of Prokofiev's works are, but it really grows on you.

John Browning's recording of the Prokofiev 1st is a masterpiece. The 2nd maybe a bit less so. And (though not a huge fan of the work) I do wish Gilels and Richter had recorded it...
 
#17 ·
Prokofiev's 6th PC, which survived in sketches only, was for two pianos, dedicated to Richter and Vedernikov.
How interesting. I know Richter and Vedernikov were an occasional duo - I have a great performance of them playing a 2 piano concerto by Bach. Fantastic motor energy. Richter was like that in Prokofiev.
 
#18 ·
Moreover, 3-4 pages of the about 20 that survived are in Vedernikov's handwriting.

Yeah that Bach concerto is a fantastic recording and IMHO Vedernikov was as great a Bach interpreter as his far more famous friend, his English suites and partitas are pretty stunning. With Prokofiev he often went for the more shall we say cerebral or "intellectually challenging", if that's a thing in music :lol:, opuses, with incredible results. The left-hand concerto, the fifth piano sonata or Pensees have never been played better.

 
#27 ·
The Second concerto combines beauty with audacity in a way that has me on the edge of my seat when that gigantic first movement cadenza begins. I prefer the Krainev/Kitaenko performance. The Third concerto shows Prokofiev turning the dial more to the Sheer Beauty side of its range--the two concertos are wonderful companions to one another.
 
#28 · (Edited)
There are two Krainev/Kitayenko sets of the concertos, one from Frankfurt and one from Moscow. They are quite different - the Moscow one is the most tense of them.

In the 2nd Concerto, I like Krainev/Moscow and Yundi Li/DG in particular. I also have Ashkenazy/Previn and Ashkenazy/Kondrashin and Browning, all good, plus, among the historical recordings, Yakov Zak, which isn't as good as I expected.
 
#35 ·
One of the great piano concerti. Which are your favourite versions?

I'll kick off with a selection:
Kissin/Philh/Ashkenazy
Rana/RAI/Slobodeniouk
Krainev/Frankfurt/Kitaenko
Postnikova/USSR SSO/Rozhdestvensky
Berezovsky/Moscow Conservatoire/Temirkanov - 2016
Cherkassky/Philh/Menges
Cherkassky/LPO/Nagano
Bolet/Amer. SO/Stokowski 1971
Henriot-Schweitzer/BPO/Munch
Gutierrez/CGBO/Jarvi
Petrov/Swedish 1988 live
Beroff/Gewandhaus/Masur
Zak/Sanderling 1960s
Bavouzet/BBC/Noseda

I deliberately left out a few big names (Wang, Ashkenazy etc) because I preferred the above. Postnikova runs rings around Wang in this, just as one example, Rana is excellent and Henriot-Schweitzer does some original things. Despite its difficulty, this concerto doesn't scare off the good female pianists.
Ok just got back from some research
We can scratch Vinnitskaya off the list,,,took me no more than 1 minute, actually the 1st few bars.
Cherkassky/Menges, strike that one off as well.

Krainev both his Frankfurt and with the USSR, are nearly the same. Slightly prefer the Frankfurt,,but I could be rong. Excellent.
Beroff/Masur I found to be quite good.
I like Brofman quite a lot.
Kissin I may have, and I think as I recall, is very good.
Bavouzet says one amazon comment, is too French style, not enough Russian temperament,,which I intuited and avoided buying that cd, even w/o hearing it.
I noted you left 1 - 4 others out the list,,and for good reason...let me track down the others on your list and see what I find.
Great concerto indeed, and worthy to have as many great records as one can lay ones hands on.

I want to ck out Gutierrez/Jarvi/Royal Concertgebouw...just did,,,i am back.
Nice beginning,,but am afraid has issues, orch and soloist.
scratch that one off the list as well....

Postnikova, was OK, nothing *memorable*
 
#37 ·
I like the Brofman set, Zubin Meta and his Israeli SO are all in sync with the score and provide excellent support for Brofman 's execution of the masterpiece.
That aside. We have Ashkenazy with Previn leading the London SO, a group which was at the height of its creative powers under Previn back in the early 1970's.
Ashkenazy understands the score quite well
This is all based on just the 1st 6 minutes/1st movement.
Now we have up is
Krainev,,not his USSR record with Kitaenko , which I trashed over at amazon in 2017, *trash*
His record with the same great Russian conductor Kitaenko , now with a superior orchestra, The Frankfurt.
Again Kitaenko is not inferior to Previn , and the Frankfurt answers quite well to their competitor, The London SO.

It all comes down to this.
Both are excellent, and one can not fault either, and will bring in Brofman/Meta/Israeli as a 3rd in this group of great Prokofiev's 2nd piano concerto...
good nite…..……..
 
#40 · (Edited)
I have Bronfman's sonata set and agree, it is good.

For the concertos, I prefer some individual ones, besides Krainev/Moscow as a general set. I personally skipped Krainev/Frankfurt, Paik/Naxos and Beroff/EMI. Haven't heard Bronfman.

Some others I like are:
Argerich/Dutoit in the the 3rd and 1st, Yundi Li's 2nd, Browning (don't have the complete set, but am now considering it), Kapell's 3rd, Richter's 1st.
The Ashkenazy/Previn set is good too. There's also a very old Ashkenazy/Kondrashin on EMI, but I don't remember it as something extraordinary.

Yakov Zak for instance is disppointing in the 2nd, IMO.

There's also a - rather hurried - Prokofiev 3rd Cto with himself as soloist.
 
#41 ·
scratch Kissin off the list, why?
As one amazon comment has it *sure played perfect,,,but is it played well?*
Paraphrase mine,,as I can not recall his aphorism.
so I head to YT and listened carefully to Kssin.
with Abbado and with Ashkenazy.
Sure it is played with skill.
But I and others are looking for something special. Kissin shows powerful skills , yet at the end of the day, I think Ashkenazy and Brofman hasa bit more<Nuances> going on.
I could be wrong.
 
#42 ·
I may have to give Brofman the edge over Ashkenazy.<<???>>

Or lets say, both are on a level beyond critic. which translates its futile at any attempt.

Just listen to this.



I have more than 30 years as recording critic. for credentials.
Though I have zero musical training, I have a inner ear which at times can get to a recording , rather quickly,,,justa few bars, at times, 1 bar,,other times I have to listen 2,3,4 times to figure out whats going on.
It all depends on the composer, the works, Some works like Grieg's PC, Rachmaninov PC1 and others,,as long as the artist stays within certain parameters and craftmanship, I have no issues..
btw there are bad recordings of these and other easy concertos. I actually heard a very poor Greig and a extremely poor recording of Tchaikovsky PC1, So bad I could hardly make out it was Tchaikovsky PC1.
The Grieg as well was unacceptable.
You know FM classical plays some standard, below grade performances ,,They have no taste.
FM classical is generic, its just a waste of time to expect great performances.
 
#43 · (Edited)
I may have to give Brofman the edge over Ashkenazy.<<???>>

Or lets say, both are on a level beyond critic. which translates its futile at any attempt.

Just listen to this.



I have more than 30 years as recording critic. for credentials.
Though I have zero musical training, I have a inner ear which at times can get to a recording , rather quickly,,,justa few bars, at times, 1 bar,,other times I have to listen 2,3,4 times to figure out whats going on.
It all depends on the composer, the works, Some works like Grieg's PC, Rachmaninov PC1 and others,,as long as the artist stays within certain parameters and craftmanship, I have no issues..
btw there are bad recordings of these and other easy concertos. I actually heard a very poor Greig and a extremely poor recording of Tchaikovsky PC1, So bad I could hardly make out it was Tchaikovsky PC1.
The Grieg as well was unacceptable.
You know FM classical plays some standard, below grade performances ,,They have no taste.
FM classical is generic, its just a waste of time to expect great performances.
30 years as a recording critic? is that a recommendation? :lol:

It's not that Classic FM don't have any taste it's just that they cater for people in the popular end of the market and one thing I cannot stand is people dissing a channel which is bringing classical music to people who would not normally listen to it . If you don't like it switch it off. I think it's great to listen to in the car
 
#44 ·
yeah I guess a tasteless , and biased, (never play any of my top fav late 20thC composers) is better than ,,,none at all.
and if the listeners were really so enthralled and beloved of their CM channel, why do the public FM CM channel beg for station support money 2 X's a year during a week period?

Where's the love?
 
#45 ·
yeah I guess a tasteless , and biased, (never play any of my top fav late 20thC composers) is better than ,,,none at all.
and if the listeners were really so enthralled and beloved of their CM channel, why do the public FM CM channel beg for station support money 2 X's a year during a week period?

Where's the love?
Oh Paul, I'm afraid if Classic FM played Schnittke and Pettersson, they'd be scaring away new listeners rather than inviting them.
 
Top