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Thread: What do you think of Beethoven's "10th Symphony"

  1. #16
    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNET CLV View Post
    Wait a minute!
    Are we talking here of the "Wellington's Victory" (the Beethoven "Battle Symphony"!), or of some other Tenth? And if it is some other symphony, wouldn't it be Beethoven's Eleventh? Hey! Who out there doesn't appreciate the "Battle Symphony"? Come on, gang! It's Beethoven, for gawd's sake!
    As per the OP, we are not talking about WV, but about this:



    And I'm sure I'm not the only one who does not like the WV either.
    #I♥CD

  2. #17
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Beethoven would say something unprintable (at least on this forum) and probably sue.

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    I've got the genuine original 4'33" version of the 10th on CD, if anyone wants it
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"
    ÉddïéRÛKíddîngVãrèsë! -I got a dog and not sure what to call it DoggydogdogMcgguPface maybe............

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  5. #19
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    Ok. So I dug out my CD copy (MCA CLASSICS MCAD-6269) of the "World Premiere Beethoven Symphony No. 10" featuring the London Symphony Orchestra and Wyn Morris, conductor. I had to shake off some dust from the disc. I've had it since its release, 1988 or 1989, and haven't played it since I first got it. So it's been a while.

    Beethoven-10____2a.jpg Beethoven-10____2b.jpg

    So, I'm playing it now.

    Hmmm....

    Thematically it reminds me of the second movement of Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 8, better known, perhaps, by its nickname: "The Karl Haas Theme" from the radio program Adventures in Good Music. With a bit of Sturm und Drang thrown into the development section. A little closer in sound to Mendelssohn, maybe, than to Beethoven. Sort of like Mendelssohn orchestrating the second movement of the Beethoven Op. 13, "Pathetique." Not bad, but then I don't appreciate Mendelssohn as I do Beethoven.

    I recall that when I first listened to the 10th, that long while ago, I was reminded that Brahms's First Symphony has long been equated to a Beethoven Tenth. I remember thinking that the E-flat Major key of the Beethoven fragment had a relationship to the C Minor Key of the Brahms First, and that Brahms probably couldn't have known that Beethoven had in mind E-flat Major for his 10th. But Brahms's mind was certainly attuned enough to Beethoven's to grasp onto 3 flats for his first symphony. No mean feat, even for a Psychic, I'd suggest.

    In any case, I don't condemn any music by Beethoven, though I may not especially like this piece or that piece. The guy has proven himself, time and time again. Rather, I relish some new Beethovenian fragment surfacing. I wish there were more.

    And maybe I shouldn't have ignored revisiting this MCA Classics disc for so many years!

    Edit add on: I'm now wondering why Beethoven would return to a theme he wrote in 1798 for the 8th Piano Sonata to grace his latest symphony, the number 10! One of the most progressive composers in history going backwards? Makes little sense to me. I can't imaging that guy running out of ideas!
    Last edited by SONNET CLV; Jul-13-2018 at 20:26.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Robert Pickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SONNET CLV View Post
    Wait a minute!
    Are we talking here of the "Wellington's Victory" (the Beethoven "Battle Symphony"!), or of some other Tenth? And if it is some other symphony, wouldn't it be Beethoven's Eleventh? Hey! Who out there doesn't appreciate the "Battle Symphony"? Come on, gang! It's Beethoven, for gawd's sake!
    Oh. Thought this was all about Brahms's First.......

  7. #21
    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    For me it's a mish-mash of material that Cooper hobbled together. I don't think that much of it would ever have made it past Beethoven's recycling bin. As for Wellington's Victory its one of the few Beethoven pieces that I find unlistenable. Cooper has my respect for trying with the 10th but he needn't have bothered, tbh.
    Last edited by Merl; Jul-14-2018 at 12:15.

  8. #22
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    I like it. Nothing wrong with trying to bring to life Beethoven's sketches.

  9. #23
    Senior Member fluteman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirime View Post
    I think it's an interesting musicological exercise, really. There are far fewer sketches for it, so the creative scope for its composition is wider than, say, a completion of Mahler's 10th or Berg's Lulu.
    To say the least. According to Mahler himself, his 10th symphony was finished "in the sketch". To me, the completed versions of that fall a bit short due to a lack of Mahler's brilliant and distinctive orchestration in many places, no doubt due to sensible decisions not to add too much to what Mahler left, but it works as a completed and great symphony. This supposed Beethoven 10th symphony is very far from that.

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