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Thread: "Religious" Music

  1. #166
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    No, that does not seem to be true in the larger scheme of things. From WIK, we see:
    I indicated that that there were extremist congregations where being gay was a no-no, and orthodox congregations are extremist.

    You need to keep in mind that words on the printed page don't necessarily reflect the real world. Life experiences are the way to the truth.

  2. #167
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Yes, and the point is that this is an innate sense. This did not come when "the law" was given to Moses; it is not dependent on the proscribed moral law of the old testament. Salman Rushdie, a professed atheist, agrees with this.



    I was reputing the assertion in #153 that old-testament moral law was also available to atheists, as if that were a good thing.

    Judaism, and many Christians, who share the old testament and its "law,", also interpret the old testament (Leviticus) as justifying ostracism of gay men; ask Allen Ginsberg.

    To this day, Judaism still ostracizes gay men from their "family." Do I have to explain this to you? Spare me.
    Spare me indeed! Only you would somehow understand the carrying forward of anti-intraspecific killing behavior as an innate requirement for future specific viability, as being somehow external to the evolutionary process itself. Question: do you not "believe" in evolution? The Pope says it's OK to believe in evolution. But I forgot; you're an artist, so you get to believe whatever you want to believe. It's magic.

    And only millionrainbows would drag, kicking and screaming, atheism and gay men together into the same post (and mind). I shuddered to find out why you thought it would clarify anything, and now I wonder what's next?!
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Aug-03-2018 at 21:27.

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  4. #168
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millionrainbows View Post
    Thank God I'm an artist/philosopher!
    Are you professionally connected to those pursuits?

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  6. #169
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    OK, we backed off a bit from our fairly hard line on purely religious/political discussion hoping people could discuss issues civilly without resorting to attacks, insults (direct or otherwise). The results were decidedly negative. Please refrain from purely religious (or political) discussions. This thread is about religious music - not religion.

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  8. #170
    Senior Member millionrainbows's Avatar
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    ...or anti-religion?
    "The way out is through the door. Why is it that no one will use this method?"
    -Confucious

    "In Spring! In the creation of art it must be as it is in Spring!" -Arnold Schoenberg

    "We only become what we are by the radical and deep-seated refusal of that which others have made us." -Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #171
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    By the time of the Crusades, the first wave of Arab Islamic expansion was long burned out, as was the second wave under the Seljuk Turks. The Islamic world was weak and was carved up into a series of petty local entities that offered little resistance to the Crusaders for quite some time. An even graver threat to Islam were the invasions of the Mongols under Hulagu. It was the trigger of the Crusades, then the impetus from the final defeat of the Mongols by Baibars the Mameluke, and finally the rise of the Ottoman Empire from the ruins of the Seljuk state that led to the great wave of Islam sweeping into southeastern Europe. The Crusades, by stopping the centripetal dissolution of Islam and leading to the growing resistance of a more united Islam under Saladin and his successors, were actually instrumental in reinvigorating Islamic expansion.
    It all depends upon whose interpretation you read. Quite a different scenario from this source:
    http://www.umich.edu/~marcons/Crusad...arab/arab.html
    "My brothers, there's not a sinner in the world to whom the way of redemption is closed!"
    --Minne in Puccini's La Fanciulla del West.

  10. #172
    Senior Member Dan Ante's Avatar
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    History always favors the author.

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  12. #173
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kobus View Post
    It all depends upon whose interpretation you read. Quite a different scenario from this source:
    http://www.umich.edu/~marcons/Crusad...arab/arab.html
    I see much agreement among what we both posted; the only difference being that your source completely ignores the enormous wave of the Ottoman expansion, from the capture of Constantinople to the approach to the very walls of Vienna.

  13. #174
    Senior Member eugeneonagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ante View Post
    History always favors the author.
    Until the facts are investigated and hopefully verified. History itself is littered with rejected accounts of history that have fallen short. The trick is take from many sources and not merely rely upon the one that confirms one's prejudices and desires.
    "I expect I shall have to die beyond my means." — Oscar Wilde, on accepting a glass of champagne on his deathbed.

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  15. #175
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange Magic View Post
    I see much agreement among what we both posted; the only difference being that your source completely ignores the enormous wave of the Ottoman expansion, from the capture of Constantinople to the approach to the very walls of Vienna.
    Ok. I'll have to give that you know a whole lot more about it than I do and that I do no fully understand the crusades. I was biased in that the main memory from Medieval, Renaissance, and Reformation Europe class (yes, that was all packed into one class) in college was of Charles Martel and his successful campaign against the Moors (Islamic invaders). But Charles was before the Crusades in the strictest sense of the term crusade. Anyway, just wanted to wrap this one up.
    "My brothers, there's not a sinner in the world to whom the way of redemption is closed!"
    --Minne in Puccini's La Fanciulla del West.

  16. #176
    Senior Member Dan Ante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kobus View Post
    Anyway, just wanted to wrap this one up.
    Oh Lord above can’t you hear us pining confusion in our head
    Send down that mod with the power of Fredrik
    And close this effing thread!
    "Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

  17. #177
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ante View Post
    Oh Lord above can’t you hear us pining confusion in our head
    Send down that mod with the power of Fredrik
    And close this effing thread!
    Ok, what I meant was wrap up on my error, not necessarily wrap up the whole thread, but that is not a bad idea either.
    "My brothers, there's not a sinner in the world to whom the way of redemption is closed!"
    --Minne in Puccini's La Fanciulla del West.

  18. #178
    Senior Member Dan Ante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kobus View Post
    Ok, what I meant was wrap up on my error, not necessarily wrap up the whole thread, but that is not a bad idea either.
    Its OK Fritz just a bit of Kiwi humour not directed at you.
    "Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

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  20. #179
    Senior Member Larkenfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Ante View Post
    History always favors the author.
    I thought it was 'history always favors the winners.'
    Don’t think. Thinking is the enemy of creativity. It’s self-conscious, and anything self-conscious is lousy. You can’t try to do things. You simply must do things. —Ray Bradbury

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