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Thread: This year's nominees for the R&R HOF, who ya got?

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    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
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    Default This year's nominees for the R&R HOF, who ya got?

    Okay, let's not have a discussion about how bogus you may think the R&R HOF is. If that's your subject, start your own thread. This thread is for a discussion of how worthy you may think a nominee for this year is.

    Pat Benatar
    Dave Matthews Band
    Depeche Mode
    The Doobie Brothers
    Whitney Houston
    Judas Priest
    Kraftwerk
    MC5
    Motörhead
    Nine Inch Nails
    The Notorious B.I.G.
    Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
    Todd Rundgren
    Soundgarden
    T. Rex
    Thin Lizzy

    I'd go with The Doobies, Houston, Rundgren, Benatar. The Dave Matthews Band is deserving, but they'll get in later. Rufus is a maybe!
    "He who makes songs without feeling spoils both his words and his music. " ~ Guillaume de Machaut

    "Music that is born complex is not inherently better or worse than music that is born simple." ~ Aaron Copland.

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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    Kraftwerk and the Doobies should have been in there a long time ago already.
    Allüberall und ewig blauen licht die Fernen! Ewig ... ewig ...

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    MC5, T Rex, Lizzy & Priest should be in there in that order.

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    I'll go for Kraftwerk and the Doobies also, plus Todd Rundgren and Whitney Houston. Several others on the list ripe for inclusion in the next couple of years.

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    Senior Member regenmusic's Avatar
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    T Rex, Todd, Doobies, Kraftwerk.

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    MC5 - if the Stooges are already inducted then so should they be. I never thought T. Rex were particularly popular in the USA so I'm surprised as well as pleased at the nomination. Other than MC5 I would nominate Kraftwerk - both groups were very influential. I have no idea why Whitney Houston should be nominated at all - as far as I'm concerned she was an MOR dance-pop act who hardly - if ever - wrote a note of music in her life but I suppose the parameters are so wide that anyone can get in these days.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    ^^^^I'm a Mariah Carey fan myself, over Whitney, but one of the biggest complaints of past R&RHOF picks has been the seeming over-indulgence by the in-group selecting body in electing low-sales, never-broadly-popular cult artists and groups, while ignoring the role of popularity, sales, number one hits, etc. in determining who is truly "famous" in a genre regarded as Popular Music. How about The Stooges and Whitney (and Carey) all getting in?

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    ^
    ^

    With respect, if the HoF ends up including Whitney Houston it won't end there, will it? In time the likes of Stock, Aitken & Waterman, any generic K-pop act and Michael Bublé could get nominated, and if any of them are enshrined then I think it will be a travesty of what the HoF originally stood for.
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Donny Trump. He threw our country out of a hotel window.
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgars ghost View Post
    ^
    ^

    With respect, if the HoF ends up including Whitney Houston it won't end there, will it? In time the likes of Stock, Aitken & Waterman, any generic K-pop act and Michael Bublé could get nominated, and if any of them are enshrined then I think it will be a travesty of what the HoF originally stood for.
    And with respect, better to err on the side of inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness, the slippery-slope argument notwithstanding. The Rolling Stone History of Women in Rock (1997) has a huge chapter titled Smooth Operators: Contemporary R&B with references to Aaliyah, Patti Austin, Anita Baker, Mary T. Blige, Tanya Blount, Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey, Randy Crawford, Des'ree, En Vogue, Dionne Farris, Whitney Houston, Miki Howard, Chante Moore, Alison Moyet, Shara Nelson, Mica Paris, Juliet Roberts, Sade, Sandra St. Victor, Lisa Stansfield, TLC, Jodi Whatley, Caron Wheeler, Karyn White, Vanessa Williams, CeCe Winans, and Angela Winbush. It's obvious that not all of these should be voted into the HOF, but surely the genre is elastic enough to allow at least the sales and charting giants such as Houston and Carey in.
    Last edited by Strange Magic; Oct-18-2019 at 04:04.

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    Senior Member starthrower's Avatar
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    Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston rock about as hard as a bowl of cottage cheese. This whole thing is a farce. Why don't they just induct every million selling artist ever signed to a corporate label and be done with it?
    Short-term thinkers are rewarded with reelection, while those who dare to take seriously our responsibility to future generations commonly find themselves out of office.

    - Marcia Bjornerud, Geologist

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston rock about as hard as a bowl of cottage cheese. This whole thing is a farce. Why don't they just induct every million selling artist ever signed to a corporate label and be done with it?
    "Rock and Roll" is undefined. So long as that is the case, let there be at least some concession on the part of the in-crowd doing the picking to the fact that, as popular music, mass music, LCD music--if that is the term that most pleases--sales count, hits count, filling arenas counts, and these facts should have a place in deciding who's in, who's out. There are cult figures who are touted as having influenced this or that well-known Rock or Pop artist or group, but whose sales and actual audience were miniscule and whose actual influence cannot be detected in the work of those who it is claimed are their heirs. I lay much of this at the feet of Rock critics, many of whom really do not like popular music and wandered into Rock criticism from other fields, looking for easy work and the chance to be First in Pompeii when they could not be Second in Rome.

    Check out this listing of unit sales by group/artist:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._music_artists

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    Senior Member Room2201974's Avatar
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    Wow, never thought I'd feel like I would have to defend Whitney here. I included her simply for her ability as a vocalist and nothing more. Could she use her voice any less effectively than James Jamerson could use his instrument???? I'm not seeing much difference there. A powerful voice that could keep the same tone across a wide range. Certainly a gifted vocalist!
    "He who makes songs without feeling spoils both his words and his music. " ~ Guillaume de Machaut

    "Music that is born complex is not inherently better or worse than music that is born simple." ~ Aaron Copland.

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    Senior Member Eva Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Pat Benatar - Fine vocalist. Had a few good rock songs. Nothing special beyond that (though I have awfully fond memories of my dad and I jamming Heartbreaker back in the day).

    Dave Matthews Band - They vacillated between a mediocre jam band and a mediocre pop band. I don't think they're HOF material.

    Depeche Mode - A massively influential electronic band whose impact is still being felt in pop music today. Not a personal favorite, but they deserve to be in there.

    The Doobie Brothers - Borderline band (leaning YES). I really enjoy them, but they very much feel "of their time" and I don't think they had much impact/influence on future rock.

    Whitney Houston - Not a fan, but she deserves a spot. Her and Mariah Carey pretty much defined the modern concept of a vocal powerhouse diva.

    Judas Priest - Should've been in long ago. One can make a case that, outside Sabbath, Zeppelin, and Purple, JP had the biggest impact on the future of hard rock and metal.

    Kraftwerk - Absolutely deserves in. Again, not a huge fan, but they were to the 80s what Depeche Mode was to the 90s.

    MC5 - Another borderline (leaning no). The problem with most punk bands is that their legacy is often dependent upon one album that tended to be more influential in concept than good in execution.

    Motörhead - Also borderline (leaning yes). I love Motorhead, but they're somewhat to metal what AC/DC was to classic rock; dependable but samey.

    Nine Inch Nails - Probably deserves in though, again, I'm not a fan. They were an awfully big force in the 90s.

    The Notorious B.I.G. - I don't care for rap but his reputation is pretty unquestioned in the world of hip-hop.

    Rufus featuring Chaka Khan - Not very familiar.

    Todd Rundgren - I like what I've heard of Rundgren, but I'm not familiar enough to weigh in.

    Soundgarden - Borderline (leaning no). Badmotorfinger and Superunknown were great albums, but I don't think either were generation-defining the way, say, Nirvana's Nevermind, Pearl Jam's Ten, or Alice In Chains's Dirt was.

    T. Rex - Probably yes. They were one of the big figures in 70s glam rock.

    Thin Lizzy - Very much yes. Tragically underrated and underappreciated for how versatile and consistently excellent they were. They're also one of the "secret" influences on metal given how much they pioneered the duel lead guitar sound.

    *************

    To sum up (my opinion):

    Definitely yes: Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, Judas Priest, Kraftwerk, Notorious B.I.G., Thin Lizzy

    Probably eventually: Doobie Brothers, Motorhead, Nine Inch Nails, T. Rex

    Probably not: Pat Benatar, DMB, MC5, Soundgarden

    If I was actually making predictions, I feel like Depeche Mode, Whitney Houston, Kraftwerk, and B.I.G will make it, but I'm doubtful about the others.

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    Senior Member Eva Yojimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starthrower View Post
    Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston rock about as hard as a bowl of cottage cheese.
    There's plenty of artists in the RAR HOF that were barely (if at all) rock artists: Miles Davis, Nina Simone, ABBA, Tupac, Joan Baez, Leonard Cohen, etc. Clearly they're using the term pretty loosely.

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