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Thread: Music that is OK to deride

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    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
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    Default Music that is OK to deride

    We all have different tastes. We may look down on the tastes of people who like music that we don't like but we rarely say so. That would be rude and unhelpful. Mostly, we don't talk about what we don't like except maybe to say that we don't like it and perhaps to give a brief reason. When the music we don't like is established or widely seen as great, some of us think that it is we who are not getting it and others are more inclined to think the music is deficient in some way that its fans have somehow missed. But we don't take it too far. Except, that is, for contemporary music (the serial or the discordant varieties, not the New Agey stuff) and Mozart. These are apparently OK to deride at length and in quite a heated way. It seems it is OK with these to criticise the motives of those who apparently like these musics and to find all sorts of technical weaknesses in the music itself.

    What I wonder is whether this is because these types of music (Mozart and "ugly contemporary music") are disliked by people who tend to be also somewhat angry by nature? Or is it that the music that gives rise to these controversies is in some way "marmite music" (music that you can't be merely ambivalent about)?

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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    No music is OK to deride, period. It's fine to say you don't like (or even hate) something, preferably with reason, but not that the music itself is awful, rubbish or should never have been writen - thus implicitly (and sometimes explicitly: "you like this? that means you have no taste!", or the alternative "you don't like this? that means you have no taste!") attacking the people who like it.
    #I♥CD

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    Senior Member elgars ghost's Avatar
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    There's much classical I don't listen to but I still consider anything I don't like or choose to ignore to be part of one big organic whole, and I certainly don't think any the less of anyone who happens to like something I don't - many of those people are extremely knowledgeable and it would be arrogant and petty-minded of me to dismiss what they have to say when espousing their choices (assuming they don't resort to unconstructively trashing anything else in order to ram home their point).

    Conversely, it's certain types of popular music which never fail to raise my hackles to the point when the more generous aspects to my nature are in short supply, which is perhaps irrational as pop/rock accounts for a mere sliver of my total listening these days. Maybe because I didn't get into classical properly until I was in my 30s it made it easier for me to be respectful of anything, whereas it's the teenage tribal aspect of pop and rock which still foments inside me over forty years later.
    Last edited by elgars ghost; Aug-10-2018 at 10:41. Reason: grammar
    '...a violator of his word, a libertine over head and ears in debt and disgrace, a despiser of domestic ties, the companion of gamblers and demireps, a man who has just closed half a century without a single claim on the gratitude of his country or the respect of posterity...' - Leigh Hunt on the Prince Regent (later George IV).

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    Senior Member shirime's Avatar
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    Mozart and contemporary music (and also Wagner) are my favourite things in classical music. The people who deride my favourite music must be hearing something that I'm not and I guess the fact that these opinions are in abundance probably mean that they are really actually on to something and can hear something in my favourite music that I can't, or it's just hip and cool to diss Mozart and contemporary music.

    But no matter, I just love what I love even if heaps of people are telling me that it's bad music, evil music, not music, the emperor's new clothes* etc.




    *if contemporary music is a case of the emperor's new clothes, then I have to say that whatever I'm listening to is one damn sexy emperor

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    Senior Member techniquest's Avatar
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    Over the years I've heard and seen much of the music of Khachaturian, the 1812 Overture, Shostakovich's 7th and Mahler's 8th given the cold shoulder in varying degrees by those whose musical taste and musical knowledge is obviously far superior to mine.
    Of these, Khachaturians' 3rd symphony is almost universally derided, followed closely by 1812.
    There may come a time when Youtube won't let us do this...

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    Senior Member stomanek's Avatar
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    I only tend to deride music when someone makes a fanciful claim about the era that interests me the most. Such as people who rave about Clementi at Mozart's expense. Yes - I do deride in those circumstances and feel justified in doing so.

    It baffles me why Mozart seems to be the no 1 target for derisory comments. I can only imagine it is because people who have no ear for Mozart think it's like the emperors new clothes - we're all deluded etc - and a derisory comment or two might just wake us up to all the pretty chocolate box rubbish we've been listening to all these years.

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    Senior Member MacLeod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomanek View Post
    I only tend to deride music when someone makes a fanciful claim about the era that interests me the most. Such as people who rave about Clementi at Mozart's expense. Yes - I do deride in those circumstances and feel justified in doing so.

    It baffles me why Mozart seems to be the no 1 target for derisory comments. I can only imagine it is because people who have no ear for Mozart think it's like the emperors new clothes - we're all deluded etc - and a derisory comment or two might just wake us up to all the pretty chocolate box rubbish we've been listening to all these years.
    If you must deride at all, I hope it's the fanciful claim, not the music itself?
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    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
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    And even so, if someone clearly prefers Clementi over Mozart, why on earth would someone else feel the need to deride that preference?
    #I♥CD

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    Senior Member Merl's Avatar
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    Yes, there are certain types of music that "raise my hackles" (as Elgar's Ghost alluded to), namely autotuned chart music and rap, and i try not to deride it as clearly a lot of people like this kind of stuff. I just avoid it like the plague, tbh. I NEVER listen to the radio and only play my own music in the car or at home or sometimes Mrs Merl's music (which is generally rock which i like). I know Ive made the odd rude remark on here but its not to deride the music, it's done with a smile. If i genuinely upset someone I do apologise.

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    Surely nobody will NOT deride the songs: "Puberty Love" and "The Words Get Stuck In My Throat" Seriously, those who 'deride' are perhaps revealing more about themselves than about the music they grump over.

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    Senior Member norman bates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    No music is OK to deride, period. It's fine to say you don't like (or even hate) something, preferably with reason, but not that the music itself is awful, rubbish or should never have been writen - thus implicitly (and sometimes explicitly: "you like this? that means you have no taste!", or the alternative "you don't like this? that means you have no taste!") attacking the people who like it.
    this is awful.
    What time is the next swan?

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    Senior Member LezLee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
    this is awful.
    Certainly is!!..........

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    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    Everybody shares my love of traditional cante flamenco! Don't they?? If they don't, there is clearly something terribly wrong with them .

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    Senior Member jegreenwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by david johnson View Post
    Surely nobody will NOT deride the songs: "Puberty Love" and "The Words Get Stuck In My Throat" Seriously, those who 'deride' are perhaps revealing more about themselves than about the music they grump over.
    On the other hand, "You Took the Words Right Out of My Mouth" and several other songs from Meat Loaf's debut album are on my workout mix. I have acknowledged elsewhere on this forum that he is my number one guilty pleasure. I justify it on the basis that Jim Steinman, the songwriter, claims Wagner as an influence (along with Phil Spector).

    I truly dislike it when people try to tell me what is good music and what is not, and I try not to insist my views are correct. I will correct statements that I believe to be factually inaccurate.

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