Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 25 of 25

Thread: Was it anti-Semitic or was it just a criticism of the Israeli government?

  1. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    No bias. Let's tick off the liberal wish-list, and see where it resides: how are gays treated in the rest of the ME?

    How are they treated in Israel?

    How are women treated in the rest of the ME?

    How are they treated in Israel?

    How are religious minorities treated in the rest of the ME?

    How are they treated in Israel?

    The fact is, if criticism of the region is fair and includes loudest denunciations for the regimes which routinely and blithely disregard the human rights of Jews, Christians, gays, women, then any criticism of Israel should be welcomed and is justified.

    But if Israel alone is singled out? Then I'm sorry, there's only one reason for that...
    It's a stereotype you're offering. The official position against homosexuals and against women and what happens from city to city and village to village is not exactly congruent. In Syria, Muslims and Christians live harmoniously. The Lebanese constitution states:

    Lebanon is a parliamentary democratic republic based on respect for public liberties, especially the freedom of opinion and belief, and respect for social justice and equality of rights and duties among all citizens without discrimination.
    Let's be charitable and say they probably keep to it to the letter about as much as any 'democracy', since they do have an actual Jewish community there in Lebanon.

    Conversely there are enough cases of religiously-generated poor treatment of women and homosexuals in Israel to close down your claim.
    Last edited by eugeneonagain; Aug-31-2018 at 21:41.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Kieran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Nobody lives harmoniously in Syria...
    The Brain - is wider than the Sky

  3. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Montreal/NYC
    Posts
    262
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    when you single them out for criticism alone among all the nations of that region, then we're entitled to draw a simple conclusion...
    Yeah, that I'm not a fan of US-backed settler colonialism.

    There was a small state offered to Jews, and a large state offered to Palestinians.

    What are you talking about? The land allocated to the Arab State included about 43% of Mandatory Palestine, while the Zionists got some 56%. But, above all, why should anyone agree to be cleansed off one's land? All you can recite is Israeli hasbara.

    UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947_resized.jpeg

  4. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Les Pays-Bas
    Posts
    3,214
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Nobody lives harmoniously in Syria...
    They do actually. My Syrian neighbour was on Whatsapp to his parents last week and they were having a birthday party with the neighbours.

    I've been to both Lebanon and Syria (my mother lived in Lebanon before she died) and I can tell you from first-hand experience that you are in error.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Kieran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BiscuityBoyle View Post
    What are you talking about? The land allocated to the Arab State included about 43% of Mandatory Palestine, while the Zionists got some 56%. But, above all, why should anyone agree to be cleansed off one's land? All you can recite is Israeli hasbara.

    UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947_resized.jpeg
    That's the 1947 partition, proposed by the UN. In 1936, Jews were offered a small state, and Palestinians were offered a larger state.

    And it's a bit galling to hear from a Jew complaining of "cleansing" when you know you'd need the Hubble telescope wearing binoculars to find a Jew who's living safely in the ME, anywhere other than Israel. We can all resort to claims that one of us or the other is "reciting" propaganda - you sound like so many modern handbooks yourself - but this doesn't address the issue in the OP.

    Israel deserves criticism, I agree with that. Should it be singled out? I disagree with that.

    Why is it singled out? That is the question.

    I suppose a simple corollary question to see where people stand on this issue is to discover if they also disagree with the Jewish nations right to exist...
    The Brain - is wider than the Sky

  6. Likes CnC Bartok liked this post
  7. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Montreal/NYC
    Posts
    262
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    "Singled out" - if only. It enjoys the increasingly uncritical - see the breaking news re Trump admin's cutting funds to UNRWA - support of the world's only superpower, which is all that matters at the end of the day. The EU countries are, too, complicit in the caging of Palestinians in Gaza and the apartheid regime instilled in the WB. Whatever toothless resolutions are passed in the UN are blocked by the US.

    The "conflict" (funny calling it this seeing how power is distributed between the two sides) does attract a great deal of attention and scrutiny - it is the symbolic epicenter of the resistance of non-white people against colonial oppression. It's not the biggest conflict in the region, but it's one hell of a bone in its proverbial throat. It's at the bottom of a lot of the alienation and militarism that issue from that region. And it's turning Israel into a nation in the image of a fascist like Naftali Bennett, never mind a prime minister who talks like this:

    Netanyahu.jpg


    Ultimately, the reason why I believe a boycott on Israel is important is for its own good. You cannot keep practicing apartheid in 2018.

    And it's a bit galling to hear from a Jew complaining of "cleansing" when you know you'd need the Hubble telescope wearing binoculars to find a Jew who's living safely in the ME, anywhere other than Israel.
    The Arab states made a tragic mistake of historic proportions when they failed to make the distinction between "Jews" and "Zionists," driving their Jewish communities out - one of the many tragedies sparked by Zionism.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Kieran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,881
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BiscuityBoyle View Post
    "Singled out" - if only. It enjoys the increasingly uncritical - see the breaking news re Trump admin's cutting funds to UNRWA - support of the world's only superpower, which is all that matters at the end of the day. The EU countries are, too, complicit in the caging of Palestinians in Gaza and the apartheid regime instilled in the WB. Whatever toothless resolutions are passed in the UN are blocked by the US.

    The "conflict" (funny calling it this seeing how power is distributed between the two sides) does attract a great deal of attention and scrutiny - it is the symbolic epicenter of the resistance of non-white people against colonial oppression. It's not the biggest conflict in the region, but it's one hell of a bone in its proverbial throat. It's at the bottom of a lot of the alienation and militarism that issue from that region. And it's turning Israel into a nation in the image of a fascist like Naftali Bennett, never mind a prime minister who talks like this:

    Netanyahu.jpg


    Ultimately, the reason why I believe a boycott on Israel is important is for its own good. You cannot keep practicing apartheid in 2018.



    The Arab states made a tragic mistake of historic proportions when they failed to make the distinction between "Jews" and "Zionists," driving their Jewish communities out - one of the many tragedies sparked by Zionism.
    Jeez, listen to yourself! When Jews are being "driven out" of the rest of the ME, it's still their fault. Hold the Arabs responsible - please - for what they do.

    As for the rest of it, you're speaking in faddish terms - "it is the symbolic epicenter of the resistance of non-white people against colonial oppression."

    Nonsense. Given their way, Israels Muslim neighbours would turn every Jew to dust. If they had Israels weaponry - and Israel had theirs - it would be over in the time it takes to click my fingers.

    "
    It's not the biggest conflict in the region, but it's one hell of a bone in its proverbial throat"

    Right. So please exercise more time organising boycotts of the real trouble makers in the region, though I somehow doubt you ever will...
    The Brain - is wider than the Sky

  9. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Montreal/NYC
    Posts
    262
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Only the likes of Syria are international pariahs - Assad doesn't get 3.8 billion a year in military handouts from the world's only remaining superpower, of which I'm a citizen.

    Jews and Muslims lived in peace in the Middle East - before Zionism. If resistance to colonialism is a "faddish" term to you, so be it. But that's what effed up this region so bad, from the tragically moronic way states such as Syria were pieced together and all the way to America's recent misadventures. My involvement with Israel stems from an honest desire to see it become a better place.
    Last edited by BiscuityBoyle; Sep-01-2018 at 00:13.

  10. #24
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    14,089
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Interesting people are always harping on about the Israeli's lack of concern for human lives. When I was last in Israel some group was firing missiles from Lebanon indiscriminately across the border. One landed near us the peaceful Kibbutz we were staying in. I don't think the people who fired them exactly cared about human lives. We all know Israelis are not perfect but look what is surrounding them!
    Last edited by DavidA; Sep-09-2018 at 10:00.

  11. Likes Kieran liked this post
  12. #25
    Senior Member haydnguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,886
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    When it comes down to it, Israel is as much 'Liberal democratic' as anyone. They also have an extremely strong military. They may be more democratic than the U.S. if the U.S. can't get their election system from being meddled with from other nations. Why the U.S. doesn't go back to paper ballots is beyond me.
    Last edited by haydnguy; Sep-09-2018 at 10:35.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •