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Thread: What kind of music Jesus Christ our Lord would like and blush (serieous question)

  1. #121
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    I didn't say that.
    What did you say then?

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    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    What did you say then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    If I should speculate, Jesus would not be interested in any kind of music and would have perceived it as escapism and empty rituals. Of course we know nothing of the real Jesus, but I know of no important religious figure (that I consider as having anything of interest to say) that would be interested in music

    ------

    Yes, 'religious' people are interested in heaven. Whatever their traditional concepts are, they're more interesting than music or science etc. Jesus was always clarifying. The committees made the KJV easier to understand and Lutheran hymns were made easier to sing.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

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    . . . . Deleted post . . . .
    Last edited by Manxfeeder; Feb-23-2019 at 22:32.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacck View Post
    if you have an open mind and want to know more about Christianity, watch this video
    Biblical Mysteries Explained The Lost Gospels

    these lost gospels are no nonsense. The gnostic version of Christianity makes more sense thatn the traditional version of Christianity. The teachings of Jesus have been heavily distorted.
    Yes, new techniques, new findings. Imagine working in that field.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

  5. #125
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Yes, new techniques, new findings. Imagine working in that field.
    Of forgeries! ......

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  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Their concepts from their tradition are more interesting, captivating and worthwhile than concepts in music or science, no?
    I do think learning about that is very interesting. More worthwhile? I don't know if I'd go that far. Like your example of science, in the Western world, Christians used the scientific method in an effort to understand God's creation, and because of it, society was benefited. According to Rodney Stark in The Triumph of Christianity, "The central figures in the scientific achievements of the [Enlightenment] were deeply religious . . . The truly fundamental basis for the rise of the West was an extraordinary faith in reason and progress that was firmly rooted in Christian theology, in the belief and God is the rational creator of a rational universe."

    The same thing about music. Western music developed from Christian/Catholic/religious composers who were seeking to express the mystery of God and fellowship with the community audibly, and we still use the concepts they developed.

    I don't know definitively about other faith systems, because I primarily study Christianity, but the Christian concept of individuals presenting themselves before God and presenting their talents back to the one who has given these gifts to them seems to invite creativity and engagement with society through these gifts.
    Last edited by Manxfeeder; Feb-23-2019 at 22:44.

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  9. #127
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manxfeeder View Post
    I do think learning about that is very interesting. More worthwhile? I don't know if I'd go that far. Like your example of science, in the Western world, Christians used the scientific method in an effort to understand God's creation, and because of it, society was benefited. According to Rodney Stark in The Triumph of Christianity, "The central figures in the scientific achievements of the [Enlightenment] were deeply religious . . . The truly fundamental basis for the rise of the West was an extraordinary faith in reason and progress that was firmly rooted in Christian theology, in the belief and God is the rational creator of a rational universe."

    The same thing about music. Western music developed from Christian/Catholic/religious composers who were seeking to express the mystery of God and fellowship with the community audibly, and we still use the concepts they developed.

    I don't know definitively about other faith systems, because I primarily study Christianity, but the Christian concept of individuals presenting themselves before God and presenting their talents back to the one who has given these gifts to them seems to invite creativity and engagement with society through these gifts.
    Yes, the Empire and later groups embraced Christology as a religion to live by and its concepts inspired artists. Not so much lately.
    And the ideal of a structured universe obeying what seemed to be logically designed laws back then - propelled progress in the old sciences (most of it has needed to be slightly corrected with the discoveries of quantum behavior and the vagaries of natural selection).
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

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  11. #128
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Of forgeries! ......
    I like to hear from all the experts. I know little about their techniques myself. Have you studied them?
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    I like to hear from all the experts. I know little about their techniques myself. Have you studied them?
    I think we're starting to drift back in the merits of one religion over another, and I'm afraid the moderators are going to step in again. I sent you a private message giving some of my thoughts on Gnosticism versus Christianity.
    Last edited by Manxfeeder; Feb-23-2019 at 23:37.

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  14. #130
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manxfeeder View Post
    I think we're starting to drift back in the merits of one religion over another, and I'm afraid the moderators are going to step in again. I sent you a private message giving some of my thoughts on Gnosticism versus Christianity.
    Jewish people will have a problem with a title containing Jesus Christ our Lord in a thread in the main forum. We Christians don't notice such things.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

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    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Jewish people will have a problem with a title containing Jesus Christ our Lord in a thread in the main forum. We Christians don't notice such things.
    I would think Jewish people might choose to ignore the thread, maybe even start their own thread.
    "All of Italian opera can be heard in [Bellini's] "Ah! non creda [mirarti]."
    --Renata Scotto in "Scotto, More Than a DIva."

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    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    I like to hear from all the experts. I know little about their techniques myself. Have you studied them?
    Yes. They are later second century gnostic books

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  18. #133
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kobus View Post
    I would think Jewish people might choose to ignore the thread, maybe even start their own thread.

    Jewish people and Jewish composers probably don't think in terms of any trinity of harmony. Tonic, dominant, and subdominant being God, Holy Spirit, and Christ. The tonic is the fundamental of all (for each key and its scale). The dominant is derived from multiplying the fundamental by three. And for the subdominant, it's four times the fundamental tone.

    The major third could be the early developers of the theology, very positive and uplifting. Next, the minor third could be the detractors and the heretics, disturbing and sad sounding, and very far removed - 6 times the fundamental or up to the 19th overtone, but crucial for more modern music and its existential explorations, with the help of all the smaller discordant intervals moving around, we’re intrigued. The metaphors are endless in music.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

  19. #134
    Senior Member Fritz Kobus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luchesi View Post
    Jewish people and Jewish composers probably don't think in terms of any trinity of harmony. Tonic, dominant, and subdominant being God, Holy Spirit, and Christ. The tonic is the fundamental of all (for each key and its scale). The dominant is derived from multiplying the fundamental by three. And for the subdominant, it's four times the fundamental tone.

    The major third could be the early developers of the theology, very positive and uplifting. Next, the minor third could be the detractors and the heretics, disturbing and sad sounding, and very far removed - 6 times the fundamental or up to the 19th overtone, but crucial for more modern music and its existential explorations, with the help of all the smaller discordant intervals moving around, we’re intrigued. The metaphors are endless in music.
    Well, I don't know what that has to do with Jewish people ignoring the thread or starting their own thread (which they probably would not). And I am not sure what your saying has to do with the OP. And I would never equate any music with God., I think the OP only wanted music that brings up feeling of God's presence. I don't believe any music really does that so much as that it is an emotional reaction.

    The best music to be pleasing to "Our Lord Jesus Christ" surely is Handel's Messiah and Chando's Anthems, which are full of verses from the Psalms, and other works using text from the Bible.'

    Jewish people might do the same but use only text from their scriptures (which is essentially the Christian Old Testament but for some different ordering of books and some variation in numbering of verses from what I can see from my copy of the Jewish Publication Society's "The Holy Scriptures," copyright 1917, 1945, 1955)
    "All of Italian opera can be heard in [Bellini's] "Ah! non creda [mirarti]."
    --Renata Scotto in "Scotto, More Than a DIva."

  20. #135
    Senior Member Luchesi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Kobus View Post
    Well, I don't know what that has to do with Jewish people ignoring the thread or starting their own thread (which they probably would not). And I am not sure what your saying has to do with the OP. And I would never equate any music with God., I think the OP only wanted music that brings up feeling of God's presence. I don't believe any music really does that so much as that it is an emotional reaction.

    The best music to be pleasing to "Our Lord Jesus Christ" surely is Handel's Messiah and Chando's Anthems, which are full of verses from the Psalms, and other works using text from the Bible.'

    Jewish people might do the same but use only text from their scriptures (which is essentially the Christian Old Testament but for some different ordering of books and some variation in numbering of verses from what I can see from my copy of the Jewish Publication Society's "The Holy Scriptures," copyright 1917, 1945, 1955)
    You're talking about words. I gave the Christian music theory.
    Tradition is not the worship of ashes - but the preservation of fire!
    Gustav Mahler

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