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Thread: Questions about orchestral score

  1. #1
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    Default Questions about orchestral score

    I'm currently studying the score of Wagner, Tristan & Isolde Prelude. There are quite a few things I've had to look up, not helped by the crappy quality of the printing!

    Which instrument is 'Bel.' ? Appearing above the Double Bass yet below the other strings on one page, above all the strings on another (?).

    I assume Hr. (in F) is an abbreviation for Horner. On one page the 'Horner' (in F & E) appear above all of the strings, on the next page they are between the Cello and Double Bass. Why?

    Another part says '3 F'.... is that Fagott? Bassoon? If so, why is its position (between the Cello and Double Bass) so unexpected in the score?


    I don't understand why the order is so inconsistent. The instruments have a specific place in the score, regardless of range and section don't they?
    Last edited by paulc; Sep-25-2018 at 12:51.
    "The worst music I actually heard on this board (with some exceptions) by people who are telling that 'theory is everything'.

    Sorry to say ... but some of you here don't have a clue what music actually is and to be aware that some of you actually have musical knowledge, all this is even more sad."

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    'Bel.' might actually be a misreading. The print is terrible. It could be 'Bcl.', so Bass Clarinet (?) which would explain something.

    The other issues remain.
    "The worst music I actually heard on this board (with some exceptions) by people who are telling that 'theory is everything'.

    Sorry to say ... but some of you here don't have a clue what music actually is and to be aware that some of you actually have musical knowledge, all this is even more sad."

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    In all the other cases you've cited you have to be misreading the score. No reputable edition would ever order the instruments as you've described. I'd advise getting a legible edition.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Oct-05-2018 at 13:44.

    'Ere I am J.H., the ghost in the machine.

    Terry Gilliam, Brazil

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    You can have a look at it here (I should have posted this earlier!):

    http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img...ner-WWV090.pdf

    Oddly, there's another edition on IMSLP which uses the same order. See on the 2nd page?
    Last edited by paulc; Oct-05-2018 at 15:04.
    "The worst music I actually heard on this board (with some exceptions) by people who are telling that 'theory is everything'.

    Sorry to say ... but some of you here don't have a clue what music actually is and to be aware that some of you actually have musical knowledge, all this is even more sad."

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulc View Post
    You can have a look at it here (I should have posted this earlier!):

    http://conquest.imslp.info/files/img...ner-WWV090.pdf

    Oddly, there's another edition on IMSLP which uses the same order. See on the 2nd page?
    Yes, there are editions that mess up the order. The one you've posted makes that strange flipping of wind and strings on the second page. The Peters 1911 edition does that too. Also, placing the voices between the lower and upper strings is atypical. If it bothers you, surely you can find an edition that uses normal score order throughout?

    Hey paulc, what's with the belligerent text in your signature?
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Oct-05-2018 at 15:40.

    'Ere I am J.H., the ghost in the machine.

    Terry Gilliam, Brazil

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast
    "Also, placing the voices between the lower and upper strings is atypical. If it bothers you, surely you can find an edition that uses normal score order throughout?"
    Thanks for confirming that the 2nd page is wonky. I thought the placement of the voices was also odd! The order doesn't worry me now that I know which instruments are which and how they transpose (if so). Everything is matching the piano reduction I have.
    Last edited by paulc; Oct-06-2018 at 16:52.
    "The worst music I actually heard on this board (with some exceptions) by people who are telling that 'theory is everything'.

    Sorry to say ... but some of you here don't have a clue what music actually is and to be aware that some of you actually have musical knowledge, all this is even more sad."

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    I enjoyed looking at that Tristan score. They do say that with this music Wagner opened up new and unexpected areas of tonality which caused quite the confusion it its day. Perhaps the score editor was attempting to graphically display that same "aura" of new and unexpected.

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