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Thread: Seriously - why a sub-forum dedicated to Metal in a Classical Music forum?

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    Senior Member bassClef's Avatar
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    Default Seriously - why a sub-forum dedicated to Metal in a Classical Music forum?

    I have no problem with metal and it's sub-genres but why do we have to have a sub-forum dedicated to it in a site that's supposed to be about classical music?

    I know it's easy to say "ignore it" but I generally use the "Today's Posts" link to browse current conversations, and I'm seeing more and more metal-oriented discussions at the top, and so it's starting to swamp the site and making the real classical music conversations less visible.

    The main reason I use TalkClassical rather than (say) BrightCelia as a classical music discussion area is because the latter already seems to be swamped with discussions about things other than classical music. But TalkClassical is becoming as bad, and it's mostly due to the metal-heads. If it gets worse I may have to look elsewhere for intelligent discussion.

    I'm all for one sub-forum on "Other Music" generically since it allows the regulars here (those who register because they are interested in classical music) to talk about other musical areas if they want to, but I fear a dedicated metal forum is bringing in people with no interest in classical music at all - quite why I don't know because there are dozens of forum sites dedicated to metal.

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    Agreed.

    blablabla

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    Quote Originally Posted by jezbo View Post
    I'm all for one sub-forum on "Other Music" generically since it allows the regulars here (those who register because they are interested in classical music) to talk about other musical areas if they want to, but I fear a dedicated metal forum is bringing in people with no interest in classical music at all - quite why I don't know because there are dozens of forum sites dedicated to metal.
    I can understand your contention. However, it sometimes is the case that when people harbor a sore spot for something about which they have a false perception, they'll do everything they can to 'win' against those promoting that thing -- despite not really knowing what it is. This means making a disproportionately high number of negative posts to distract from what's actually going on around them. In an effort to enlighten those with the wrong perception so that they may be happier and more self-aware, there may be counter-posts. This is likely the primary reason for the post count in the metal forum.

    I'm listening to Chopin's Piano Sonata No. 2, movement 3 - March Funebre at the moment, by the way. Very powerful.

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    I say let's hit up the metal forums and start talking about classical music!

    I have nothing against the metal sub-forum in here per se, but what I find interesting is the vast majority of metal-heads on Talk Classical rarely talk about classical music and contribute to the main classical threads. It's like they have come here to set up their own community on the forum but stay in their own area for the most part. I can see if they were more active in contributing to our classical discussions, but since that does not seem to be the case for the most part, why are they here? Seems sort or arbitrary...just go to a metal forum and don't bother with your sub-forum here.

    I wonder if there are also metal music sub-forums on other forum sites like the V-Neck T-Shirt Forum, the Cabinet Maker's Forum, the Racoon Lovers's Forum and the Manual Transmission Forum...? (Seems sort of parasitic, does it not?)
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Even though I'm sort of metalhead myself, or at least ex-metalhead I see this kind of subforum as a bit bizarre and unnecessary on classical music forum. Nothing bad about discussing metal on non-classical music subforum though. Relationship between metal and classical is often exaggerated, by metalheads specifically.

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmaj7 View Post
    Relationship between metal and classical is often exaggerated, by metalheads specifically.
    Quote of the century, right there!
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    I can see if they were more active in contributing to our classical discussions, but since that does not seem to be the case for the most part, why are they here? Seems sort or arbitrary...just go to a metal forum and don't bother with your sub-forum here.
    There are no ulterior motives here. I'm just as baffled as you or anyone else is, but I also acknowledge the duality of this phenomenon; more often than not, the metalheads here seem to be replying to posts made by non-metalheads. I, as an appreciator of metal music, am bewildered by the persistence of these people. Don't they realize we want to make posts elsewhere?

    If you'd like to take a look at my profile, you'll see that about 17 of my 27 posts are in the metal forum. Any statistician will tell you that 27 is not a substantial number for determining statistical significance, but doing the math, we see that about 37% of my posts have been made outside of the metal forum. Not exactly an overwhelming extreme, is it? Yes, there is a bias towards the metal forum to be sure, but:

    1. This is liable to change as my post count goes up into the hundreds and thousands. Again, no credible statistician would assert that 27 is a statistically significant sample.

    2. Where people are hateful or incorrect, I'm likely going to try to help them out, so I'll gravitate towards those types of discussions, regardless of where they're occurring.

    I wonder if there are also metal music sub-forums on other forum sites like the V-Neck T-Shirt Forum, the Cabinet Maker's Forum, the Racoon Lovers's Forum and the Manual Transmission Forum...? (Seems sort of parasitic, does it not?)
    This is an absurd analogy. Classical and metal have much in common as iterated incessantly on these forums; the threads here have a wealth of material through which to search for your answer, so if you want to avoid grasping at straws in the future, I'd suggest maybe reading some of them.
    Last edited by Dedrater; Jun-23-2009 at 21:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jezbo View Post
    I know it's easy to say "ignore it"
    Not just easy to say, easy to do!

    A review of the "recent posts'' section made shortly before this post showed 49 entries, of which three (3) were in the "Metal Music Discussion" thread. Hardly an insuperable state of affairs, I'd say.

    Typically, such sub-forums begin because there's a demand for that kind of entry from other participants. If they attract a few posts, it shows that the decision to mark out a place for such talk was justified, now, doesn't it?!

    I'm sure if there was similar enthusiasm for (say) Acoustic Folk Music, we'd have THAT as a sub-forum already. Then, I guess someone would complain that our site was being infested by Folk-ies!
    The hardest knife ill us'd doth lose his edge. Shakespeare- Sonnet 95

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    I'm not grasping at straws, my friend!

    I think there is probably little that classical and metal REALLY have in common. And don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about...I grew up listening to punk mostly, but also some good amounts of metal and rap and rock.

    Plus, it seems the metal-heads in here really don't seem to know that much about classical music, which is interesting considering they claim they are so much alike. Outside of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and other "easy" composers, they seem to hardly know anything else. Why is it they are always asking for dark, war, "depressive" works in the repertoire? Shouldn't they know these works already? Aren't these the works most "similar" to metal music?

    Seems like the metal-heads in here talk mostly about metal because that's really the only thing they know anything about. Aside from asking for suggestions or trying to convince the rest of us that metal is a sub-genre of classical, what do these people really contribute to our discussions?

    Anyway, Dedrater, maybe you have something to contribute to this forum outside of metal music, and if you do, than I'm sure you are very welcome here.
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    I'm not grasping at straws, my friend!

    I think there is probably little that classical and metal REALLY have in common. And don't try to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about...I grew up listening to punk mostly, but also some good amounts of metal and rap and rock.
    As stated in other threads, including one with the very word in its title, technicality, or theoretical aspects of music in general, aren't the only ways in which one can draw parallels between types of music. Quoting myself from another thread:

    While I acknowledge the Classical influence -- and its multitude of variations -- in metal, I fail to see what the precise theoretical aspects of both paradigms have to do with the similarity of their strivances and passions. In feeling, content, and general attempt at superseding cyclic song structures (which are more mnemonic than anything else), they parallel one another.
    If you insist that the nuances of Classical render a comparison between it and metal useless because metal only parallels the 'dark' side of Classical, you could give Summoning, Ras Algethi, or the ambient works of Ildjarn a try.

    Plus, it seems the metal-heads in here really don't seem to know that much about classical music, which is interesting considering they claim they are so much alike. Outside of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky and other "easy" composers, they seem to hardly know anything else.
    While I don't consider myself a 'metalhead', I do enjoy the top 1% of the genre. The rest is forgettable nonsense, like anywhere else in the music world. In any case, I'd like to think I probably know more about Classical than I do metal. I'm more likely to listen to Liszt, Debussy, or Dvorak than I am even some of the better metal out there, for instance. This is beside the issue of the existence of this sub-forum, though, and risks dissolving into ************.
    Last edited by Dedrater; Jun-23-2009 at 20:42.

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    What do you have against ************?
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    I agree that a metal forum on a classical music forum is pretty "out there," especially considering all the metal music forums there are and how limited the number classical music forums there are on the Internet.

    This is called "TalkClassical" not "TalkMetal." I'm not even sure why there's a "Non-Classical" music discussion section on this forum, but whatever, it doesn't really bother me bad enough to start a thread about this very topic of why there's a sub-forum dedicated to metal on a classical forum.

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    OK This is Sub-forum of Non-classical and there was talking about metal more than other music genres and then is made this forum do you understand why.
    Last edited by Krummhorn; Jun-24-2009 at 06:53. Reason: ad homs removed

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    I'm not the least bit interested in metal, but it doesn't bother me if other people want to discuss that stuff on the non-classical board - that's what it's there for. Having said that, from what I've seen I must say that talk on those metal threads is often extremely unpleasant. Maybe it would be best if those that hate the genre agreed to disagree with those that love it and leave it at that since it doesn't seem likely that anybody is going to change anyone else's mind on the issue. Insulting each other like happens almost every other post or so definitely isn't going to get the job done, that's for sure.

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    Senior Member Tapkaara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batrider View Post
    OK This is Sub-forum of Non-classical and there was talking about metal more than other music genres and then is made this forum do you understand why or you are just another stupid blind moron,this is not insult.
    I've seen you using ad homs (name calling) at least twice today, Batrider. I'd suggest you tone it down a bit if you don't want to be banned. Just looking out for you.
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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