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Thread: Getting metal fans involved with classical music

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    Default Getting metal fans involved with classical music

    I've started asking metalheads if they like classical:

    http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/615...etalheads.html
    http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8486
    http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index....msg35127.html
    http://www.metal-realm.net/forum/sho...d.php?p=524743
    http://www.revolvermag.com/forum/vie...php?f=7&t=3773
    http://www.metalhordes.com/forum/sho...123#post106123
    http://www.heartofmetal.net/let-the-...100.htm#248470
    http://www.metal-forum.com/viewtopic...=150135#150135
    http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum...2#post20446492

    Also am asking forum leaders to create classical forums in their metal forums.

    This may all seem stupid to you, but it was inspired by this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservationist View Post
    Classical music offers what everyone secretly wishes metal would: an unbroken cultural tradition untamed by the modern *****, untouchable by the mediocre tools who seem to thrive in our industrial cities.

    Here's a few favorites:

    1. Brahms, Johannes - Get your Romanticism on. Flowing, diving, surging passages which storm through tyrannical opposition to reach some of the most Zen states ever put to music. 4 Symph. (2CD)

    2. Respighi, Ottorino - Italian music is normally inconsequential. This has an ancient feeling, a sense of weight that can only be borne out in an urge to reconquest the present with the past. Pines, Birds, Fountains of Rome

    3. Saint-Saens, Camille - Like DeBussy, but with a much wider range, this modernist Romantic rediscovers all that is worth living in the most warlike and bleak of circumstances. Symph. 3

    4. Bruckner, Anton - Writing symphonic music in the spirit of Wagner, Bruckner makes colossal caverns of sound which evolve to a sense of great spiritual contemplation, the first "heaviness" on record.Romantic Symphony

    5. Schubert, Franz - A sense of power emerging from darkness, and a clarity coming from looking into the halls of eternity, as translated by the facile hand of a composer who wrote many great pieces before dying young. Symph. 8 & 9

    6. Paganini, Niccolo - Perhaps the original Hessian, this long-haired virtuoso wore white face paint, had a rumored deal with the devil, and made short often violent pieces that made people question their lives and their churches. 24 Caprices

    Classical Music for Metal Fans and Metalheads
    I think we should encourage metalheads and classicalheads (heh) to meet halfway.

    One comment shows the difficulty of our task, however:

    It's hilarious checking out that forum and finding such a contrast - here we find metalheads who all have a huge respect for classical music, who are educated about it and have listened to it, and at that forum are people who are supposedly above everyone else because they're classical music purists, don't understand metal and berate and belittle everyone who has something to say about it. I love it.

    http://www.returntothepit.com/view.php?formid=52154
    Metalheads are used to people slagging their music, so the hostile responses here fit into a stereotype. They're counterproductive.

    If we are open to people coming in and learning more, we may get another generation of fans from this genre.

    Thoughts appreciated.
    the Dark Legions Archive underground metal reviews

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    To make it crystal clear what I see as "hostile responses":

    Quote Originally Posted by Herzeleide View Post
    None, zero, zilch; don't go near it, it's terrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    Metal is the worst genre of pop music. Funk, hip-hop and reggae are the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    metalheads are ugly and gross. Those 'metal' girls make me want to hurl and the boys look like smelly unkempt yokels with tasteless, revolting piercing through every flap of skin. (and if they don't look like that that's only because they're too ***** or their mum won't let them - not through want of desire) They all look brain dead (which they must be) and they all deserve to be shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    Nobody of any worth is a metalhead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    Or we could just ban anyone who expresses even the vaguest interest in becoming interested in becoming interested in metal. Or we could just stone them.. that's always a viable option.
    Quote Originally Posted by sam richards View Post
    It is the fact Conservationist and most of the ANUSites (yes, you included) pretend to know about classical music when it's obvious that doesn't have the knowledge to discuss Classical. This is not a Metal forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    That reason alone, and the fact that I hate metal or any kind of "music" which lacks real musicianship, should be reason enough to avoid it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    But we still hate you and think your facile and pretentious breed of pop music is only fit to line a dust bin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    They're all geeky satanists and their music sounds like sped up computerised noise with foul vocals and laughable subject matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    Real musicians don't play metal, they play classical and jazz. Rock, metal, country, etc. are all styles of music that were created, in my opinion, because these "musicians" couldn't play classical or jazz and obviously showed no desire to do so, which in turn, means they don't understand the kind of commitment it takes to become a virtuoso on their instrument. But instrumentalists aside, there aren't any rewarding qualities about metal that interests me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    That was a hilarious post. Thanks for the laugh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    You won't be seeing me listening to metal either....ever. I don't listen to nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach View Post
    Metal isn't musicians music. I simply don't know any musicians of considerable talent who value it as an art form...as if these drugged out D- students have any right to discuss anything academic..
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirror Image View Post
    Metal is nonsense. It's all rooted in something that doesn't serve any purpose. It's only purpose, it seems, is to make people bash beer bottles on their heads and run around in a mosh pit like some uncivilized tribal ritual. The only difference here is people get hurt for no reason.
    Last edited by Conservationist; Jun-25-2009 at 00:10.
    the Dark Legions Archive underground metal reviews

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    Senior Member Dim7's Avatar
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    Bombastic orchestral pieces often come to mind when classical is recommended for metalhead, but the string quartet genre has some headbanging material as well. For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.

    Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:

    Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
    Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmaj7 View Post
    For some reason string instruments sound sharper and harsher when they aren't backed up by other string instruments playing the same notes, while string orchestra on the other hand has usually this smooth, velvety sound.
    It's a combination of acoustics and appropriate performing style.

    The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.

    A really good string section will try to play with exactly the same nuances, so not always velvety and smooth, but more dynamic like what can be achieved in a solo sound - but it has to be very precise to work. It is the mark of a great orchestra that has this kind of discipline, and quite rare.

    But, this is the same with all instruments. Think of the individual singer and the choir - very different sound. Even with electric guitars - have you ever heard Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies?! Usually scored for 10 amplified electric guitars + drums and bass. Certainly worth a listen. The individuality is lost for a mass sound...ummm, not sure if I would describe it as velvety, though. Crazy weird but good, although best live.

    Also, think of the Metallica sound - multi layed guitars to achieve that homogeneous fat sound - same principals. Even with the use of distortion and subtle chorusing (which mimic multiple players), a single player will never sound the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cmaj7 View Post
    Good examples I might recommend to metalheads interested in classical, more specifially fans of extreme metal genres:

    Bartók - String Quartet No. 4 - 5th movement, SQ no. 5 - 5th movement
    Shostakovich SQ no. 8 - 2nd movement
    Very solid choices! I love those pieces. Have you heard the Emerson SQ recording of the Bartok - my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Good View Post
    It's a combination of acoustics and appropriate performing style.

    The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.

    A really good string section will try to play with exactly the same nuances, so not always velvety and smooth, but more dynamic like what can be achieved in a solo sound - but it has to be very precise to work. It is the mark of a great orchestra that has this kind of discipline, and quite rare.

    But, this is the same with all instruments. Think of the individual singer and the choir - very different sound. Even with electric guitars - have you ever heard Glenn Branca's guitar symphonies?! Usually scored for 10 amplified electric guitars + drums and bass. Certainly worth a listen. The individuality is lost for a mass sound...ummm, not sure if I would describe it as velvety, though. Crazy weird but good, although best live.

    Also, think of the Metallica sound - multi layed guitars to achieve that homogeneous fat sound - same principals. Even with the use of distortion and subtle chorusing (which mimic multiple players), a single player will never sound the same.



    Very solid choices! I love those pieces. Have you heard the Emerson SQ recording of the Bartok - my favorite.
    It's funny, to me it would seem more logical that with free-pitch instruments like violin it would be more difficult to have smooth, pleasant sound with many instruments playing the same thing than with one instrument - you'd think that they could easily create some accidental microtonal dissonances. Being off-tune sound harsher harmonically than melodically, I think.

    When it comes to classical, this works with human voice as well - many people find choirs pleasent but the typical "opera" vocals disturbing. Obviously this isn't inherent quality in human voice, solo singers in pop can sound very smooth, but in classical it seems practical considerations have affected the style as well - solo singers had to compensate the lack of amplification with that ridiculous loud vibrato style (or so I've heard).

    About that "guitar symphony" thing, that bizarre idea actually popped into my mind quite a long ago but it was news to me that somebody had actually done it. Was it clean or distorted guitar sound?

    I'm not sure what's my version of bartók quartets - I've ripped these from CDs I borrowed from library (which is legal in my country, strangely).

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    I concur with the second post tbh.

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    Music can divide and separate (as a bra advert used to state!),but many 'classical' music fans can be so snobbish that its amazing they don't get their heads caved in. I've found that heavy metal fans are some of the most faithful and sincere folk I've met. I used to read a certain classical music forum and became so annoyed by the 'Old Boy' atitude that I moved on to this website. Classical music is'nt a private club.
    I do enjoy heavy metal,and to those 'Satanists' I put my hands up and say Ava Satanas!
    Mongoose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Good View Post
    The aspects of the sound that you are describing in the solo string sound become swallowed in the whole of the sound in a larger ensemble. The unison will find it's "complete" sound which cancels out the individual nuances - it is the nature of sound to do this. And knowing of this phenomenon, players will play more like a section to find that perfectly balanced sound.
    Similar to how heavy distortion and tremolo picking balances out the sound and you get a smooth hum that, if you play fast enough, is a kissing cousin to a synthesizer in sound.
    the Dark Legions Archive underground metal reviews

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    Good one Conservationist, it gets me sick to see these elitist people who think thevye risen to the top of society through their music tast like Bach and Mirror Image. Nobody cares if youre now at oxford but you came from the ghetto.

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    Bach's bashing of metal and metalheads has gone so over the top that it's not funny anymore. Plus anybody who doesn't like Mahler must be more or less evil.

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    For the record, I have absolutely NOTHING against metal music, rap music, pop music or any other type of music that is often berated by the "typical classical snob." I grew up listening to very eclectic stuff from the Sex Pistols to the Misfits to the Beastie Boys to Sublime. Anyone who tries to tell me this type of music is lesser than classical is missing the point. It's a different genre, no more no less.
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    This is a very good idea. A marriage of the two genres with respect would be a great idea. Both metal and classical music are different yet have similarities, no one, however, can deny that the fans of both forms of music are similar as well. (Here is a hint: The long hair! lol) But in all seriousness, psychiatrists have found big similarities between the fans of both forms. Making both listen to each others music and understand may be a very good thing.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ty-traits.html
    "When I open my eyes I must sigh, for what I see is contrary to my religion, and I must despise the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig van Beethoven

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    Quote Originally Posted by emiellucifuge View Post
    elitist people
    The point, to my mind, of musical elitism is to find the best and paint the world with it. It's not about people/personalities. It's about the music.

    All IMHO.

    Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.
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    "Somebody" mentioned the Misfits? That would be me.

    Do I detect snobbery and elitism against the Misfits?
    "Music is not philosophy." --Akira Ifukube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapkaara View Post
    "Somebody" mentioned the Misfits? That would be me.

    Do I detect snobbery and elitism against the Misfits?
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservationist View Post
    Someone mentioned the Misfits... interesting music there. I can appreciate some of the old hardcore but its limited range of notes makes it very "rhythm music," even more so than most rock, jazz, blues, etc. I can still cheer for the Amebix, Cro-Mags, Misfits, Discharge, GBH and Exploited however.
    I don't think so. At least, I just listed them with the other hardcore favorites.
    the Dark Legions Archive underground metal reviews

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