Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 107

Thread: CD player has stopped working

  1. #16
    Senior Member senza sordino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,558
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Inexpensive CD and blu-ray players are better than 25 year old ones. Especially if your old player doesn't have an oversampling DAC. There aren't middle of the line players any more because most people just buy blu-ray players that play everything. Even a cheap one is better than an old CD player. I'd just get a new all in one player for $150 or so and chuck the old one.
    Yes, you're probably correct. It is time to replace my old player. Thanks for spending my money. I've never been an audiophile, I've never sought out the most up to date, biggest, baddest technology. I like good sound, but I've never kept up with the technology as it evolved. I know what a DAC is but what is over sampling? I don't want a blue ray player. I never watch DVDs and I have a DVD player.

    A couple of years ago, I did walk into an audiophile shop, a shop that sells almost exclusively equipment to listen to music. The salesman is a parent of a kid I taught. Small world. He tried to sell me a Marantz player, Marantz amp and speakers by a French company (I don't remember the name). Nice stuff. But this set up would have set me back > $2000. Don't forget, Canadian prices are generally 1/3 to 1/2 more than American for the same product. (Exchange plus Canadian mark up, the price we pay for not being American). This was nice equipment and I would like the sound, but I couldn't really justify the price at the time. And now it'll be more expensive two years later, and I'm not getting raises that keep up with inflation.

  2. Likes Larkenfield, JAS liked this post
  3. #17
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Hollywood U.S.A.
    Posts
    5,879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    In the early days of CDs, DACs employed a brick wall filter to prevent noise above the range of human hearing to be introduced into the output. But the filters used to do that weren't really a brick wall. They had a roll off as it went into the filter that was audible. The highest frequencies were missing. The problem was that CDs only go to the edge of human hearing, so they couldn't just shift the filter higher to avoid having the roll off in the audible range.

    So they created oversampling... Oversampling extends the frequency range beyond the edge of hearing so the filter can be placed higher and there is no audible roll off of high frequencies. Oversampling started being introduced in the late 1980s. So if your player is older than that, you might notice better sound with a new one. It's also handy to be able to play other formats like DVD, Blu-ray Audio, SACD, etc. Modern blu-ray players are swiss army knives for formats. Even if you don't want to play video on it, there's plenty of audio only content in formats other than CD. The line between audio and video is dissolving. They don't make many dedicated CD players any more.

    The quality of audio electronics have improved significantly in the past couple of decades, and the price has dropped due to mass manufacturing. A cheapie DVD player is capable of producing perfect sound for human ears. The only reason to spend more is for features.

    Did I explain oversampling clearly enough?
    Last edited by bigshot; Oct-08-2018 at 17:44.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

  4. Likes senza sordino, gopack87, Merl liked this post
  5. #18
    Senior Member Baron Scarpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,242
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    In the early days of CDs, DACs employed a brick wall filter to prevent noise above the range of human hearing to be introduced into the output. But the filters used to do that weren't really a brick wall. They had a roll off as it went into the filter that was audible. The highest frequencies were missing. The problem was that CDs only go to the edge of human hearing, so they couldn't just shift the filter higher to avoid having the roll off in the audible range.

    So they created oversampling... Oversampling extends the frequency range beyond the edge of hearing so the filter can be placed higher and there is no audible roll off of high frequencies. Oversampling started being introduced in the late 1980s. So if your player is older than that, you might notice better sound with a new one. It's also handy to be able to play other formats like DVD, Blu-ray Audio, SACD, etc. Modern blu-ray players are swiss army knives for formats. Even if you don't want to play video on it, there's plenty of audio only content in formats other than CD. The line between audio and video is dissolving. They don't make many dedicated CD players any more.

    The quality of audio electronics have improved significantly in the past couple of decades, and the price has dropped due to mass manufacturing. A cheapie DVD player is capable of producing perfect sound for human ears. The only reason to spend more is for features.

    Did I explain oversampling clearly enough?
    What you're leaving out is that the oversampling scheme includes digital filtering/shaping to suppress signal beyond the 22.05 kHz theoretical limit of the CD format and digital filtering/shaping (unlike analog filtering) can be mathematically ideal. The analog filtering is pushed well beyond the range of human hearing.

    Most blue ray players I see nowadays have no analog output at all, only digital outputs. That offloads the digital-to-analog conversion to the amplifier, which is a better place for it, since it avoids the necessity of transmitting signals between separate components through analog cables, that can be vulnerable to noise pickup. It's also nice because if you have a good amp with a high quality DAC all of your digital inputs benefit from it.
    Last edited by Baron Scarpia; Oct-09-2018 at 00:40.

  6. Likes Larkenfield liked this post
  7. #19
    Senior Member senza sordino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3,558
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    My CD player has been working since I ran the cd cleaner disk two days ago. Thanks for all your comments. I have been looking around the internet and Crutchfield in particular for new players and amplifiers. It's all a bit overwhelming. And if I were to buy a new stereo system I'd want an upgrade, not just a replacement.

    That said, I live in an apartment. I have to be weary of my neighbours, I can't crank up the volume too much while Pines of Rome is playing.

  8. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    philadelphia,pennsylvania
    Posts
    822
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default

    I say get a new one 23 years is a long time to use it so give it a funeral .

  9. #21
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    SoCal, USA
    Posts
    19,347
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I say if it's working fine, let it be and save the planet.


  10. Likes jegreenwood liked this post
  11. #22
    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,009
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    The problem is, those brick wall filters on inexpensive all formats in one players, suck, and they cause their own audible sonic problems.

    Other problems with inexpensive all format players, is they have bad shielding. All other things being equal, the upper frequencies will sound inferior to better shielded players.

    Also. error correction is not very good on inexpensive players.

    And DACs do make a difference. Very little $$ is spent on the DACs in inexpensive all format players.
    Last edited by Simon Moon; Oct-14-2018 at 23:17.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  12. #23
    Senior Member Art Rock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kampen (NL)
    Posts
    15,987
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'm doing most of my listening on an old Sony CD player/amplifier with old Denon speakers (the Denon CD player and Sony speakers are gone) and an LG DVD player attached for MP3 files burnt on DVD's. In recent months, the Sony CD player has started to give problems. When loading a new CD, I have to reload 3-10 times before it finally recognizes it instead of displaying "no disc". It does this with old and new CD's, factory made or self-burnt. I think its laser is reaching its end, but I might try the cleaning trick.

    I had treated myself a few weeks ago to a brand new Denon CD player/amplifier/speakers that was highly recommended on various sites. The sound - when it played - was great, but it developed problems within a few days (rattling CD tray), so I returned it for a full refund.
    Allüberall und ewig blauen licht die Fernen! Ewig ... ewig ...

  13. #24
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Hollywood U.S.A.
    Posts
    5,879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Moon View Post
    The problem is, those brick wall filters on inexpensive all formats in one players, suck, and they cause their own audible sonic problems. Other problems with inexpensive all format players, is they have bad shielding. All other things being equal, the upper frequencies will sound inferior to better shielded players. Also. error correction is not very good on inexpensive players. And DACs do make a difference. Very little $$ is spent on the DACs in inexpensive all format players.
    I've done blind level matched A/B comparison between a $40 Walmart DVD player and an Oppo HA-1 and there is no audible difference at all. I'm betting you haven't done controlled listening tests to see how honest the sales pitch you're being told is.

    Even the cheapest player I could find is audibly transparent. Maybe it won't last as long as a high end one, and it certainly might not have all the features. But they sound identical to human ears. And you would have to replace the Walmart player 30 times to cost as much as the Oppo.

    Dedicated CD players aren't being made much any more. A CD uses the same technology as any other optical media. And the specs for blu-ray are MUCH higher than for CD. If something can play one kind of disc, it can play any other kind of disc just as well.

    The only reason to replace a functioning player is if it is from the mid to late 1980s and it doesn't have oversampling. Otherwise, the only reason to replace it is to get better features... HDMI, more formats, etc.

    If there is a manufacturing defect, it will probably manifest itself in the first couple of weeks. If you buy from Amazon, you can return anything for any reason for 30 days.
    Last edited by bigshot; Oct-15-2018 at 16:54.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

  14. Likes gardibolt liked this post
  15. #25
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,009
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Good to see problem was solved by simple cleaning. My blu-Ray player was halting a lot through movies a few months back so I took it apart, cleaned out the stray particulate matter inside and it worked fine after that. All it takes is one speck on the lens to ruin your day.

    With one exception, every CD player I've replaced came with an improvement in sound, which I attribute to improved D2A conversion.
    Last edited by philoctetes; Oct-15-2018 at 18:22.

  16. Likes senza sordino liked this post
  17. #26
    Senior Member philoctetes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    1,009
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    "Did I explain oversampling clearly enough?"

    Not for me. I had to check out Wiki:

    Oversampling in reconstruction

    The term oversampling is also used to denote a process used in the reconstruction phase of digital-to-analog conversion, in which an intermediate high sampling rate is used between the digital input and the analogue output. Here, samples are interpolated in the digital domain to add additional samples in between, thereby converting the data to a higher sample rate, which is a form of upsampling. When the resulting higher-rate samples are converted to analog, a less complex/expensive analog low pass filter is required to remove the high-frequency content, which will consist of reflected images of the real signal created by the zero-order hold of the digital-to-analog converter. Essentially, this is a way to shift some of the complexity of the filtering into the digital domain and achieves the same benefit as oversampling in analog-to-digital conversion.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This explains how the cutoff window is expanded to reduce ringing etc. with a signal that has already been sampled. Interpolation is the answer - it increases the processing bandwidth, but not the signal bandwidth.
    Last edited by philoctetes; Oct-15-2018 at 18:33.

  18. #27
    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,009
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    I've done blind level matched A/B comparison between a $40 Walmart DVD player and an Oppo HA-1 and there is no audible difference at all. I'm betting you haven't done controlled listening tests to see how honest the sales pitch you're being told is.
    I actually have. Several times.

    Every year, when the Los Angeles Audio show (T.H.E. Show) is in town, a bunch of us (usually about 15) get together and do a level matched blind test on various types of equipment.

    One year (2015) we compared 3 different players, at 3 different price points, from a couple hundred dollars, up to multiple $1000s. I believe everyone there heard the difference between them. If I remember correctly, the mid priced unit tied with the highest priced.

    In 2016, we compared 3 DACs. Last year, we compared 3 file formats (44.1, 192, DSD).

    Test system was comprised of, Magico S5 speakers, Not really a fan, but I am still able to evaluate other equipment on them.

    Amps, preamp, etc were equally 'high end' (Pass Labs).

    CD players were:

    Marantz (can't remember model, but I have it written at home in some notes)
    Rega Saturn (about $3000)
    Meridian (about $10K)

    All of these were of very recent production at the time.

    Each time, levels were matched, the person doing the switching had no idea what they were switching between, and DUT were hidden from listeners.
    Last edited by Simon Moon; Oct-15-2018 at 21:14.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  19. Likes Larkenfield liked this post
  20. #28
    Senior Member bigshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Hollywood U.S.A.
    Posts
    5,879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Those tests were documented I hope. Could you please send me a link to the details of those tests? If you conducted them carefully, you will be quite famous. No one else has been able to do that with any kind of statistical accuracy.
    CD Sound Is All You Need: http://xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
    AES Audio Myths Seminar: http://youtu.be/BYTlN6wjcvQ
    AES Damn Lies Seminar: http://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM

  21. #29
    Senior Member Simon Moon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,009
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
    Those tests were documented I hope. Could you please send me a link to the details of those tests? If you conducted them carefully, you will be quite famous. No one else has been able to do that with any kind of statistical accuracy.

    They were not documented in any way that I believe would be publishable. But that does not mean that they were flawed. These listening tests are done for our own entertainment and enlightenment. No scholarly pretensions are expected. However, I will say, that the person whose house we meet at for these tests is a professor at CSUN, so there is probably a little bit of thought involved.

    The listening tests were done double blind, but not in lab like environment, so they might not qualify. As I previously stated, no one in the listening room has any visible access to the person switching, or the equipment being switched. The person switching (who had incredible patience) had no interest in audio, nor was related to anyone in the listening test, so had no "horse in the race" as far as proving that DACs are, or are not, audibly different.

    All we knew was when a switch was made (via a LED).
    Last edited by Simon Moon; Oct-22-2018 at 00:12.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  22. #30
    Senior Member eljr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,115
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by senza sordino View Post
    Oh the horror, the horror. My CD player has stopped working. It's about 23 years old, an all in one unit JVC with radio and cassette tape. The CD started skipping and not playing forwards, just stuck in one place. I cleaned the disk and this didn't help, the CD player was stuck in a different spot. And as I set a new track to play, the player made a lot of noise as it tried to find the new track. And then it couldn't find the right track to play. I tried another disk I played yesterday without any trouble and this didn't play today.

    I will first try to buy one of those cd cleaners disks that you insert. Beyond that I don't know what to do. I can ask my local CDs shop if they know of any repair shops or people. I hope I don't have to buy a new player. And new CD players are not so easy to find. Middle of the line players don't really exist anymore do they?

    Oh the horror, the horror. Any suggestions?
    Buy new, don't screw around. Get a universal disc player and be happy.
    Saturn, the Bringer of Old Age

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •