Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 42 of 42

Thread: Netrebko to do Salome?

  1. #31
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howlingfantods View Post
    To be honest, I never really understand the Trebs hate online. She's not historically great or anything but she's got a lovely voice, particularly her rich, plush bottom (I'm talking about the voice, folks). Her top is a little strained and veering ever closer to being a wobble, and obviously her appetite for trying new roles often exceeds her abilities. But I prefer opera stars who ambitiously try more than they can handle and wisely cancel those they can't, rather than those who just do the same 4 roles over and over (looking at you, Gheorghiu).

    Is it that she used to be hot and she used to be marketed for her hotness? Online posters seem to primarily hate (1) women performers who are overly hot, and (2) women performers who are insufficiently hot. It's a tough world out there for women on stages.
    Let's face it, people especially in Classical music tend to hate other people who are successful, especially when they're good looking. I know she's not quite the hottie she once was but still quite a looker as far as opera goes anyway! Recently saw her in Aida and before that Lady Macbeth. Gave really good performances. So hate away guys!
    Last edited by DavidA; Nov-02-2018 at 21:53.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Sloe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,573
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howlingfantods View Post
    To be honest, I never really understand the Trebs hate online. She's not historically great or anything but she's got a lovely voice, particularly her rich, plush bottom (I'm talking about the voice, folks). Her top is a little strained and veering ever closer to being a wobble, and obviously her appetite for trying new roles often exceeds her abilities. But I prefer opera stars who ambitiously try more than they can handle and wisely cancel those they can't, rather than those who just do the same 4 roles over and over (looking at you, Gheorghiu).

    Is it that she used to be hot and she used to be marketed for her hotness? Online posters seem to primarily hate (1) women performers who are overly hot, and (2) women performers who are insufficiently hot. It's a tough world out there for women on stages.
    Some singers only get cast in a few roles and therefore get masters in those roles.

    Anna Netrebko is not bad at all I recently heard he in Adriana Lecouvreur nothing wrong there. But for Annas I prefer Anna Sohn and Anna Moffo in her prime for both looks and singing.
    Last edited by Sloe; Nov-03-2018 at 10:13.

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    I am still mourning what seems to be the death of the dramatic baritone. Ruffo, Tibbet, Gobbi and Milnes were the crème de la crème (IMO), but we don't have anyone who can approach Stracciari, De Luca, Warren, Merrill, Bastianini, Panerai or Bruson. I'd probably prefer to hear some of the Met 20th century comprimarios rather than the mostly lacklustre baritones we have today in Verdi or Wagner.

    N.
    I had a sneaking suspicion I'd missed someone here. I forgot Battistini!!!

    N.

  4. Likes Barelytenor liked this post
  5. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    In assessing what Netrebko is likely to be in Salome I need to take in several factors.

    Of greatest importance are the innate qualities of her voice and how it has evolved since I first heard her in 1994.

    In 1994 she had a voice with a somewhat bright quality with a moderate amount of weight in it. Therefore I would definitely say that she were a soprano and the regularly performed roles I would have suggested she choose from are the following:

    Gluck
    Alceste
    Ifigenia

    Mozart
    Countess in Figaro
    Donna Elvira
    Donna Anna
    Fiordiligi
    Konstanze
    Elettra
    Vitellia

    Bel canto
    Rossini tragedies (the Colbran roles)
    Donizetti's three queens, Lucia, Lucrezia Borgia
    Bellini: Il Pirata

    Verdi
    Violetta
    Desdemona

    Puccini
    Manon Lescaut
    Tosca
    Butterfly
    Minnie

    German pre-Wagnerian
    Beethoven: Leonora
    Weber: Agathe

    Wagner
    Senta
    Elsa
    Elisabeth
    Sieglinde

    Strauss
    Marschallin
    Ariadne
    Arabella
    Countess

    Glinka
    Lyudmila
    Antonida

    Tchaikovsky
    Tatiana
    Liza
    Iolanta
    Maria (in Mazeppa)

    However, a singer's appropriate rep doesn't depend solely on the innate qualities of their voice, but their abilities too. Netrebko doesn't have a flexible voice that can execute coloratura well and doesn't have a feel for the German language.

    Therefore I would have suggested the following roles for her when she made it big outside of Russia from about 2003 on:

    Countess, Donna Elvira and Fiordiligi by Mozart (instead Anna sang Susanna); Desdemona by Verdi (she claims it is a boring role); Tatiana, Liza, Iolanta and Maria (plus some Rimsky-Korsakov and other Russian roles) [However she was quite snobby about Russian opera and insisted on giving us her bel canto. Why she wanted to parade her lack of a trill before us in anybody's guess!]

    I would suggest that this is why some haven't been totally convinced by her and perhaps that's why Balalaikaboy suggests that fach plays a part here.

    Getting back to the topic in hand, Netrebko's voice has darkened and is more weighty than it was and therefore there is scope for her to tackle heavier roles. Salome would be one of these in my opinion. However, I wasn't convinced by her German in Lohengrin and therefore I wonder if it will work.

    Conclusion
    Fine in theory, but her linguistic limitations as a singer make me sceptical.

    N.
    Last edited by The Conte; Nov-04-2018 at 00:13.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    11,501
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    I had a sneaking suspicion I'd missed someone here. I forgot Battistini!!!

    N.
    The "King of Baritones," late representative of a type of singer that no longer exists: the "bel canto baritone." His superb recordings were all made in his 50s and 60s, and their tonal consistency, dynamic control, legato, portamento, diction, freedom, elegance, swagger and joy remain object lessons in the art of singing.

    The field of great baritones recorded before WW I is incredibly rich. I'd like to add to your list Giuseppe Kaschmann, Giuseppe Campanari, Oreste Benedetti, Antonio Magini-Coletti, Antonio Pini-Corsi, Pasquale Amato, Antonio Scotti, Giuseppe Bellantoni, Mario Ancona, Giuseppe de Luca, Eugenio Giraldoni, Domenico Viglione Borghese, Jean Lassalle, Jean Note, Maurice Renaud, Leon Melchissedec, Charles Gilibert, Jean Perier, Hector Dufrannne, David Bispham, and Anton van Rooy.

    Almost any of these singers could wipe the floor - technically and stylistically - with most of today's top baritones. Just listen at random on YouTube to realize that there really was a "golden age" of opera. It lasted into the interwar period and more or less petered out in the 1950s.

    (I realize this is a diversion from the thread, but what more can be said about Netrebko as Salome? Let's hear her and talk then.)
    Last edited by Woodduck; Nov-04-2018 at 06:52.

  7. Likes The Conte, wkasimer liked this post
  8. #36
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    Netrebko doesn't have a flexible voice that can execute coloratura well and doesn't have a feel for the German language.
    I have her in a performance of L'elise D'Amore and she executes the coloratura OK. I also heard her in Lady Macbeth and she was fine. Brought the house down. She's no Sutherland at it but who is?

  9. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    I have her in a performance of L'elise D'Amore and she executes the coloratura OK. I also heard her in Lady Macbeth and she was fine. Brought the house down. She's no Sutherland at it but who is?
    I also heard her in Lady Macbeth and I thought she was excellent. She was committed to the opera's drama and her vocal acting was thrilling. However the coloratura was messy where she attempted it and she missed out quite a few of the notes where she didn't. It's a shame as I'm sure she could rectify this with a bit of work.

    There was only one Sutherland, but if you mean who singing today can sing coloratura well, then I would say Monastyrska or Theodossiou in the role of the Lady (although Theodossiou may be in semi-retirement now) and then there's Diana Damrau, Lisette Oropesa, Sabine Devieilhe, Audrey Luna and Patrizia Ciofi to name just a few in lighter rep. There are plenty of sopranos around who can sing coloratura.

    N.
    Last edited by The Conte; Nov-04-2018 at 10:56.

  10. Likes betterthanfine liked this post
  11. #38
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    I also heard her in Lady Macbeth and I thought she was excellent. She was committed to the opera's drama and her vocal acting was thrilling. However the coloratura was messy where she attempted it and she missed out quite a few of the notes where she didn't. It's a shame as I'm sure she could rectify this with a bit of work.

    There was only one Sutherland, but if you mean who singing today can sing coloratura well, then I would say Monastyrska or Theodossiou in the role of the Lady (although Theodossiou may be in semi-retirement now) and then there's Diana Damrau, Lisette Oropesa, Sabine Devieilhe, Audrey Luna and Patrizia Ciofi to name just a few in lighter rep. There are plenty of sopranos around who can sing coloratura.

    N.
    But of course the Lady is more of a mezzo role viz Cossotto and Verett

  12. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    London UK
    Posts
    1,791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    But of course the Lady is more of a mezzo role viz Cossotto and Verett
    There are never going to be an abundance of singers who can do the role justice and I gave examples of two who have excelled when it comes to the part's coloratura in recent times. If you have a fetish about mezzos who have mastered coloratura you have Bartoli, DiDonato, Semenchuk, Daniela Barcellona and Jennifer Larmore is still singing (and did Lady Macbeth in Zurich recently). Joan Sutherland was not the last singer with a flexible voice, no matter how extraordinarily amazing her vocal makeup was (and she didn't sing the Lady either).

    N.

  13. #40
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    11,163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Conte View Post
    There are never going to be an abundance of singers who can do the role justice and I gave examples of two who have excelled when it comes to the part's coloratura in recent times. If you have a fetish about mezzos who have mastered coloratura you have Bartoli, DiDonato, Semenchuk, Daniela Barcellona and Jennifer Larmore is still singing (and did Lady Macbeth in Zurich recently). Joan Sutherland was not the last singer with a flexible voice, no matter how extraordinarily amazing her vocal makeup was (and she didn't sing the Lady either).

    N.
    I can assure you I have no fetish around mezzos!

  14. Likes The Conte liked this post
  15. #41
    Senior Member aussiebushman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    104
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    In answer to Le Conte's question "am I missing something"

    Caballe - Kinda hard to miss at that size!
    Last edited by aussiebushman; Nov-06-2018 at 01:15.

  16. #42
    Senior Member Barelytenor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    A better, purer place.
    Posts
    691
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by howlingfantods View Post
    To be honest, I never really understand the Trebs hate online. She's not historically great or anything but she's got a lovely voice, particularly her rich, plush bottom (I'm talking about the voice, folks).
    Well, you don't hire sopranos for their rich, plush bottoms (I'm talking about the voice, folks).

    Kind regards,

    George
    Last edited by Barelytenor; Nov-06-2018 at 16:17. Reason: add quote

  17. Likes Bonetan liked this post
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •