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Thread: Harmonising question

  1. #1
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    Question Harmonising question

    Hello there!

    I struggle to connect G minor and B major, I found this solution, but it's not very statisfying.

    bdsm-bunny_6.jpg

    (Piece is in Dm)

    Could you help me out, also with voice leading, if you can?
    I'm fairly new at composing.

    Looking forward for your help, guys!

    Thanks.

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Check out the circle of fifths. G minor and B major are far apart, you need to find one or more key chords to get from one to the other. For example you may be able to go from G minor to F minor, to E-flat minor and then B major.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    First, the example is lacking key sig and accidentals making replying impossible, but as for Phil's suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil loves classical View Post
    Check out the circle of fifths. G minor and B major are far apart, you need to find one or more key chords to get from one to the other.
    You do not have to go through all that. Use a chromatic modulation. Have first, a chord in G minor that contains an A natural (like the iio chord [aka A diminished chord]. Then have a chord in B major that contains a A# (like the V chord [aka F# major chord] and then have the new tonic B major chord. So the voice leading is A-A#-B.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    With chromatic modulation how about this chord progression G minor (G Bb D), altered chord (Gb Bb Eb), B major (D# F# B). I thought chromatic modulation is having a common note or notes while shifting others?
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    No, there must be three notes in a row (2 or all 3 in one voice) all half steps. The first must be a pitch in the old key and the final two a natural occurring half step in the new key.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    That was my bad, in german harmonics we use b and h, instead of b and bb.
    I meant G minor to Bb major in one step.
    Like:
    G minor > F major > Bb major.

    Apologies, gentlemen.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    No, there must be three notes in a row (2 or all 3 in one voice) all half steps. The first must be a pitch in the old key and the final two a natural occurring half step in the new key.
    Ok, I get that part. But how is your example above chromatic modulation when the chords weren't specified to have a common note (ie. one chord with A natural, and one chord with A#)
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member Vasks's Avatar
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    Phil: A chromatic modulation is not the same as a common/pivot tone modulation. Or at least that's what I think you're thinking.

    https://music.utk.edu/theorycomp/cou...Modulation.pdf

    Ancore: Your change of key is quite special since they both have two flats and the second key is major. So I believe your move to a F major chord that goes to B-flat is OK. The only way to make it more convincing would be to have either/or both (1) the chord or two before the F chord have the F# leading tone in it, so the F natural sounds less like G minor key when you get to B-flat major key (2) if you have more than two voices include the 7th in the F chord. Dominant 7ths make a stronger pull to tonic.

    BTW: this whole discussion should be in the TalkClassical Music Theory section, not the composer section...but that's water over the dam.
    Last edited by Vasks; Nov-25-2018 at 02:52.
    "Music in any generation is not what the public thinks of it but what the musicians make of it"....Virgil Thomson

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    Senior Member Phil loves classical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasks View Post
    Phil: A chromatic modulation is not the same as a common/pivot tone modulation. Or at least that's what I think you're thinking.

    https://music.utk.edu/theorycomp/cou...Modulation.pdf

    Ancore: Your change of key is quite special since they both have two flats and the second key is major. So I believe your move to a F major chord that goes to B-flat is OK. The only way to make it more convincing would be to have either/or both (1) the chord or two before the F chord have the F# leading tone in it, so the F natural sounds less like G minor key when you get to it (2) if you have more than two voices include the 7th in the F chord. Dominant 7ths make a stronger pull to tonic.

    BTW: this whole discussion should be in the TalkClassical Music Theory section, not the composer section...but that's water over the dam.
    Ok, got it thanks.
    "Forgive me, Majesty. I'm a vulgar man. But I assure you, my music is not.“ Mozart

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Here is a solution where the IV6 chord in G minor becomes the V6/V in B-flat major:


    Screen Shot 2018-11-25 at 8.36.59 AM.jpg

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    Thank you, Edward!

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    Member Tikoo Tuba's Avatar
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    The naturalized G , second measure , seems a funny fart inanely suggesting G-flat is the norm . Anyway , Gm-Bb-Gm-Bb-Gm ... forever unto the end and without transitions would not be insensible .

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    G minor --> Bb Major

    Gm D Bb

    Gm F7 Eb Bb

    Gm Eb Gdim F7 Bb

    Gm Eb Cm D Bb

    Some ideas for transitions I use sometimes. I consider G minor to be my "home" key, so I write with it a lot.

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