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Thread: Why Postmodernism In Music Is Bad (Sucks)

  1. #466
    Senior Member MacLeod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluteman View Post
    Yes, I think you're right. We are comfortable in concluding murder (defined as intentionally killing another human) is wrong in general because, as an empirical, practical matter, in virtually any type of human society, most agree that it is enormously harmful and destructive. And humans are social animals. But even there, capital punishment is still used in many US jurisdictions, most of Asia and some African countries, and western countries are increasingly legalizing assisted suicide. Of course, one still may have the strongly-felt personal belief that all murder is wrong, including in those instances, and it would be silly for me to claim I could 'disprove' that principle. But as I said, if one empirically observes how humans behave and construct their societies, one would have to conclude that most humans treat murder as nearly always wrong, but not absolutely always.

    I adopt the same approach -- empirical observation -- in reaching conclusions about cultural trends and artistic movements like postmodernism, because, though far from perfect, it has consistently proved to be the most accurate tool for analyzing our world.
    Can I just check what our understanding is of the word 'wrong'? Murder may be an unprofitable act, harmful, anti-social, destructive - and demonstrably so - but 'wrong' implies something else.
    "I left TC for a hiatus, but since no-one noticed my absence, I came back again."

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    Quote Originally Posted by zelenka View Post
    it was much more popular until 3 decades ago compared to today
    Nonsense. Where do you get this idea? What happened 3 decades to music to have such a devastating effect on it's popularity?

    You are transferring your personal inability to appreciate certain music to the whole global classical music population!

  3. #468
    Senior Member DaveM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boludo View Post
    Nonsense. Where do you get this idea? What happened 3 decades to music to have such a devastating effect on it's popularity?

    You are transferring your personal inability to appreciate certain music to the whole global classical music population!
    Can’t refrain from making it personal can you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    If so, you made your point poorly.
    Maybe, or you didn't read it properly.

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    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluteman View Post
    Yes, I think you're right. We are comfortable in concluding murder (defined as intentionally killing another human) is wrong in general because, as an empirical, practical matter, in virtually any type of human society, most agree that it is enormously harmful and destructive. And humans are social animals. But even there, capital punishment is still used in many US jurisdictions, most of Asia and some African countries, and western countries are increasingly legalizing assisted suicide...
    Multiply that death toll by many many times and you'll get an approximation of the number of people murdered by governments in wars -- wars we always glorify. Murder, in our species, is not just a regrettable side effect of managing organized societies, it is an absolute preoccupation in which we revel.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    Can’t refrain from making it personal can you.
    I was replying to zelenka. It is a tired old position. 'I don't like it, therefore it is rubbish therefore it's all falling apart.'

    You've been here long enough to know the feeble arguments put forward by modern music haters. There is nothing wrong in calling it out for what it is.

  9. #472
    Member sharkeysnight's Avatar
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    So what is postmodern music, anyways?

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  11. #473
    Senior Member fluteman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post
    Can I just check what our understanding is of the word 'wrong'? Murder may be an unprofitable act, harmful, anti-social, destructive - and demonstrably so - but 'wrong' implies something else.
    Fair enough. I should have said, "if one empirically observes how humans behave and construct their societies, one would have to conclude that most humans treat murder as an act that should nearly always be strictly prohibited, but not absolutely always." If someone wants to argue that murder is always absolutely wrong, including capital punishment and assisted suicide, on moral, religious or other grounds, I make no, and have no, argument to the contrary. Empirical observations do not carry such value judgments. That is one of their most useful features.

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkeysnight View Post
    So what is postmodern music, anyways?
    Its music that you have not heard yet
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  14. #475
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    Not all instances of killing someone are murder. Murder is specifically the unjustified/illegal killing of someone. The two should not be conflated.

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  16. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharkeysnight View Post
    So what is postmodern music, anyways?
    It is music that zelenka doesn't like.

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeolianStrains View Post
    Not all instances of killing someone are murder. Murder is specifically the unjustified/illegal killing of someone. The two should not be conflated.
    Is this an essential part of postmodern music?
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  20. #478
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacLeod View Post
    Can I just check what our understanding is of the word 'wrong'? Murder may be an unprofitable act, harmful, anti-social, destructive - and demonstrably so - but 'wrong' implies something else.
    What else does it imply? All of those factors, and more, contribute to the perception and belief that intentional, unnecessary killing of human beings is wrong. Empirical observation supports moral principle, and is a necessary and proper foundation for it. The wrongness of murder is implicit in the very term: we don't use the term, in most cases, for killing in self-defense, defense of others, or legal punishment.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Apr-15-2019 at 23:43.

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  22. #479
    Senior Member fluteman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeolianStrains View Post
    Not all instances of killing someone are murder. Murder is specifically the unjustified/illegal killing of someone. The two should not be conflated.
    Yes, I'm a lawyer, so I know that. I thought it would be simpler to define it my way since that is the sort of definition non-lawyers usually use in moral or philosophical discussions. Murder in legal terms is by definition a crime and cannot be justified. Above, I made the mistake of using the term "wrong" in the legal sense rather than a moral or philosophical one, understandably causing some confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EddieRUKiddingVarese View Post
    Is this an essential part of postmodern music?
    We're talking about music? Huh.

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