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Thread: Voice leading question

  1. #1
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    Default Voice leading question

    Hello there,

    I have a problem with bar 8. I want to keep the S voice leading, but this solution doesn't sound really good.
    I've marked the notes I prefer keeping with green, but I'm unable to find anything better.

    Could you help me? The song is in G minor.
    Thanks!

    mh1 másolata másolata.jpg
    Last edited by ancore; Jan-06-2019 at 19:52.

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Clefs, a key signature, and a more complete passage would help!
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jan-06-2019 at 18:46.

    What greater comfort does time afford than the objects of terror re-encountered and their fraudulence exposed in the flash of reason?
    — William Gaddis, The Recognitions

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    Sorry, fixed it!

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    Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Assuming the clarinet part is transposed you have N6-V7 in bar 8. The standard voice leading is for the flattened 2nd to move down by a whole step to the seventh scale degree. Have you tried changing the A natural in the Cello to F#?

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    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    I did another version of what you wrote, rudely and whimsically altered. Sorry. That's just how I clarify things about the music for myself: by tinkering with them.

    I did change the voice-leading in m. 8, by employing the same idea BMV 1080 suggested, but also by thinning out and clarifying the texture, eliminating numerous voice crossings. You have a bunch of lines and accompaniment figures all crammed into the same octave. The figure in the clarinet I eliminated because I thought it superfluous. Two different bass lines, the one in the piano and the one in the bass, just makes things cluttered, so I coordinated them with doubling.

    TC ancore.jpg


    Here's how it sounds:

    TC ancore.mp3
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Jan-07-2019 at 02:01.

    What greater comfort does time afford than the objects of terror re-encountered and their fraudulence exposed in the flash of reason?
    — William Gaddis, The Recognitions

    Originality is a device untalented people use to impress other untalented people and to protect themselves from talented people.
    Basil Valentine

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    I don't have a better solution at the moment, but I would like to point out that arpeggiated textures create multiple voices. Imagine that the r.h. piano part in m. 8 was played in block chords rather than arpeggiated. This way we can see the three voices of the r.h. part. The voice leadings are, from the bottom up, C-D, Eb-F# (melodic augmented second), and the Ab goes up to A natural. I will look at this further and make a recommendation.

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    EdwardBast is correct in having the bass move from C to D in this measure. The intervening Ab is best left out for the smoothest voice leading IMO. Keeping the C bass for the whole measure makes it the 7th of D7 (third inversion D7). If this is so then it needs to resolve down by step (as all chordal 7ths do) to Bb in a following Gm chord. Gm is a better choice for the first chord of m.9. A half-dim (ACEbG) does not make sense here. D7 needs to go to either Gm or Eb major as a deceptive progression.

    So, I like C to D in the bass in m.8. He is also correct in wanting the Ab to move down to F#. The piano right hand, and any part doubling it, should go Eb-C-Eb Ab (as you have written it) to D-C-D-F#. Again, thinking of two block chords in m.8, we now have the Ab leading down to F# as it should, the octave D's are approached in contrary motion, and the common tone C is held. All good things. Arpeggiating the chords does not change this voice leading.

    The proper resolution, in the right hand, of the D7 chord to Gm involves the F# moving up to G, the C moving down to Bb, and the D staying put as a common tone. The bass would be strongest moving from D to G. Try playing m.8 and the first chord of m.9 this way with three block chords and listen for the smooth voice leading. Let me Know what you think.

    Sorry for not taking the time to create a musical example, I hope I have conveyed my meaning clearly without an excess of tedium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    I did another version of what you wrote, rudely and whimsically altered. Sorry. That's just how I clarify things about the music for myself: by tinkering with them.

    I did change the voice-leading in m. 8, by employing the same idea BMV 1080 suggested, but also by thinning out and clarifying the texture, eliminating numerous voice crossings. You have a bunch of lines and accompaniment figures all crammed into the same octave. The figure in the clarinet I eliminated because I thought it superfluous. Two different bass lines, the one in the piano and the one in the bass, just makes things cluttered, so I coordinated them with doubling.

    TC ancore.jpg


    Here's how it sounds:

    TC ancore.mp3
    Thank you for the solution.
    I'd avoid moving from F# to Eb, i think for this piece, it doesn't really fit that well. It's just my taste i guess.

    Thank you for the replies.
    I really didn't want to move from Ab to F#, since I want to keep the F# in the Soprano.
    So i tried this progression, resolving to VI as you suggested.
    So it goes like this:
    N6 - I64 -> V7 > VI

    It sounds better to me, what do you think?

    Last edited by ancore; Jan-07-2019 at 12:20.

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    Here is another solution, probably better one.


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    Member Bwv 1080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancore View Post
    Here is another solution, probably better one.

    That one has parallel octaves in bar 3 between the clarinet and RH piano, may want to consider more contrary motion between the two instruments

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    Oh thanks, didn't notice that one

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    Well, here is the full work.
    I'm sure I've slipped over many things, would be thankful if you'd tell me any errors you find.

    Thank you!

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