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Thread: What represents the peak of Mozart's works to you?

  1. #31
    Senior Member PlaySalieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidA View Post
    Probably the major works from Figaro onwards excluding 'Tito' which was probably a rush job for cash.
    Tito is still a great opera.

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    Senior Member manyene's Avatar
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    The Clarinet Concerto. The Jupiter Symphony. The C Minor Mass. Each exemplifies an aspect of Mozart's genius.

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    Senior Member Machiavel's Avatar
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    Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte, The magic flute, Tito.


    All from 1786 to 1791. 5 operas in 6 years. talk about productivity and genius...
    ¨Life in every breathe¨

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  7. #34
    Senior Member fluteman's Avatar
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    One of those threads where everyone is right. Even the music from Mozart's earliest childhood is leagues ahead of any other composer's work before age 15 or 16, at least that I know of. Mendelssohn wrote his string octet at the age of 16, and I would place him a distant no. 2 in the precocious genius rankings.

  8. #35
    Senior Member PlaySalieri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluteman View Post
    One of those threads where everyone is right. Even the music from Mozart's earliest childhood is leagues ahead of any other composer's work before age 15 or 16, at least that I know of. Mendelssohn wrote his string octet at the age of 16, and I would place him a distant no. 2 in the precocious genius rankings.
    I think the octet is held up as the best work ever composed by a 16 year old. That may be true - AMSND is also a remarkable piece. I would hold up some of Mozart's early operas as his best works up to 16 - and maybe one or two of the masses - K139 in c minor. Exsultate Jubilate. The truly great works really start appearing from the 3rd VC onwards when he was 19. Mendelssohn did not quite fulfil his potential in the spectacular way that Mozart did. A dozen more works of the calibre of his VC and I would have said different.

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  10. #36
    Senior Member hammeredklavier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluteman View Post
    One of those threads where everyone is right. Even the music from Mozart's earliest childhood is leagues ahead of any other composer's work before age 15 or 16, at least that I know of. Mendelssohn wrote his string octet at the age of 16, and I would place him a distant no. 2 in the precocious genius rankings.
    Quote Originally Posted by stomanek View Post
    I think the octet is held up as the best work ever composed by a 16 year old. That may be true - AMSND is also a remarkable piece. I would hold up some of Mozart's early operas as his best works up to 16 - and maybe one or two of the masses - K139 in c minor. Exsultate Jubilate. The truly great works really start appearing from the 3rd VC onwards when he was 19. Mendelssohn did not quite fulfil his potential in the spectacular way that Mozart did. A dozen more works of the calibre of his VC and I would have said different.
    I also think Mozart at 16~19 surpasses Mendelssohn at the same age





  11. #37
    Senior Member DavidA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomanek View Post
    I think the octet is held up as the best work ever composed by a 16 year old. That may be true - AMSND is also a remarkable piece. I would hold up some of Mozart's early operas as his best works up to 16 - and maybe one or two of the masses - K139 in c minor. Exsultate Jubilate. The truly great works really start appearing from the 3rd VC onwards when he was 19. Mendelssohn did not quite fulfil his potential in the spectacular way that Mozart did. A dozen more works of the calibre of his VC and I would have said different.
    I think Mendelssohn stands as the most precociously gifted young genius but of course he never progressed in the same way as Mozart. Having said that, he still wrote some wonderful music in his later years which are among my favourite works.

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  13. #38
    marc bollansee
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    As much as I love Mozart's music he is not an innovator IMHO. His major strength lies in the operas and therefore i choose Don Giovanni and The Magic Flute. Other major works are the Clarinet Cto K 622 and the String Quintets K 515 and 516.
    His Sinfonia Concertante is also out of this world. His Piano Concertos 20 to 25 are also a joy to listen to.

  14. #39
    Senior Member fluteman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc bollansee View Post
    As much as I love Mozart's music he is not an innovator IMHO. His major strength lies in the operas and therefore i choose Don Giovanni and The Magic Flute. Other major works are the Clarinet Cto K 622 and the String Quintets K 515 and 516.
    His Sinfonia Concertante is also out of this world. His Piano Concertos 20 to 25 are also a joy to listen to.
    Yes, good points. To me, Mozart's most important 'innovation' consists of his extraordinarily sophisticated and imaginative use of harmonic progression and modulation, though he knew a thing or two about counterpoint too. That had a very big impact on Beethoven, and ultimately the entire romantic era.

  15. #40
    Senior Member Strange Magic's Avatar
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    I most enjoy the last 4 symphonies, both of the sinfonia concertantes, and many of the later piano concertos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Rock View Post
    The OP is not asking for our favourite Mozart work(s), but:

    To my taste, concertos, and it's not even close. Especially a dozen or more of his piano concertos, the clarinet concerto (possibly my favourite concerto ever), the oboe concerto, the horn concertos, and the fifth violin concerto. Difficult to think of any other composer that combined quality and quantity in this form like him.
    I second your clarification of the OP and your answer. I also think his collection of concertos seem unmatched by others. I would add the sinfonia concertante, Flute Concerto No. 2 In D Major – K. 314, and Concerto for Flute and Harp in C Major - K. 299.

  17. #42
    Senior Member Woodduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammeredklavier View Post
    I also think Mozart at 16~19 surpasses Mendelssohn at the same age





    I'm not sure what you mean by "surpasses" - in what respect? Clearly the young Mozart was busy with his counterpoint lessons. I suppose if you consider that sort of writing the peak of musical achievement, Mozart was prodigious, although I must say that a fugue that harps on its subject as relentlessly as that string quartet movement does can become annoying.

    I don't find any of the works you post capable of ousting Mendelssohn from first place in my estimation of musical prodigyhood. By age 19 Mendelssohn had written an immense quantity of truly striking music, including a number of works whose freshness, originality, and maturity seem to me not matched by anything Mozart produced at comparable ages, and in some cases scarcely surpassed by anyone at any age. These include his violin sonatas (the first composed at age 11), his piano quartets (the first composed at 13), the twelve string symphonies (composed between ages 12 and 14), the Octet (composed at 16), the Midsummer Night's Dream (a flare of artistic imagination whose familiarity shouldn't lead us to take it for granted, composed at 17), and the String Quartet in A-minor (in my estimation one of the finest quartets after Beethoven, composed at 18).

    Based on these works alone, if Mendelssohn had continued to grow as Mozart did he'd have left everyone at the post.
    Last edited by Woodduck; Jan-21-2019 at 19:52.

  18. #43
    Senior Member Enthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc bollansee View Post
    As much as I love Mozart's music he is not an innovator IMHO. His major strength lies in the operas and therefore i choose Don Giovanni and The Magic Flute. Other major works are the Clarinet Cto K 622 and the String Quintets K 515 and 516.
    His Sinfonia Concertante is also out of this world. His Piano Concertos 20 to 25 are also a joy to listen to.
    Not an innovator? I'm not sure I care because, necessary though innovation might be, the ability to produce great masterpieces (whether they use existing techniques and language or invent their own) is what really matters to me. In any case I know very little about the technical side of music. But are those operas really not innovative? Who before Mozart had shown us how many different characters can all sing at the same time and make wonderful music through doing so? I'm not even sure who has managed it since Mozart. And, really, who had done with the symphony what Mozart managed to do with his last six? Not Haydn. And .... I could go on. It seems to me that some of his great works represent huge innovation.

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  20. #44
    Senior Member flamencosketches's Avatar
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    To veer even further off topic a bit, where's a good place to start with Mendelssohn (pieces/recordings)? I haven't heard any of his music.

    I'm listening to Mozart's 3rd violin concerto (Itzhak Perlman & Wiener Philharmoniker) and it's really good. And I've been listening to a few of the later piano concertos a lot lately. The concertos really may be the peak to me. But I haven't really heard a piece of his that I didn't love. I'm glad I decided to give Mozart's music a shot last month, I never expected to like it so much.

  21. #45
    Senior Member Allerius's Avatar
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    For me it's the Requiem, the "Great" mass, the Ave Verum Corpus, the four last symphonies, the late piano concertos and the operas Le Nozze di Figaro, Cosi fan Tutti, Don Giovanni, Die zauberflöte and La Clemenza di Tito. Also Eine Kleine. I really like the piano sonatas and many of his early pieces, but for me this the best of his production.

    I'm not acquainted with most of his chamber music though, except for the string quartets.
    “To do good whenever one can, to love liberty above all else, never to deny the truth, even though it be before the throne.” - Ludwig van Beethoven.

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