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Thread: Was Tchaikovsky a Homosexual?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    none of them have.



    care to show them to me?



    when and who? names?
    Everybody having seriously written about Tchaikovsky's life have, by definition. You're discrediting yourself.

    Read biographies of Tchaikovsky before trolling here. None of them omit to discuss extensively this subject.

    Since the archives have been declassified after the soviet era. Vladimir Volkoff, who wrote in french, was a Tchaikovsky's relative and by the way no particularly gay-friendly wrote in 1983 that scolars had then to wait to see these uncensored archives to have full infos about Tchaikovsky's intimate life, because censored versions on his correspondance by force just hinted at Tchaikovsky's homosexuality.

    The problem with trolls is that they know absolutely nothing and haven't do any reseach, claiming all and nothing, such as nobody saw anything, spoke of nothing when even in Norway Tchaikovsky's homosexuality was a common knowledge in artistic circles in the nineteeth century.

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  3. #92
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    Everybody having seriously written about Tchaikovsky's life have, by definition.
    show me the purported letters and then we talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    Vladimir Volkoff
    he wrote history fiction books having nothing to do with reality.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    show me the purported letters and then we talk.
    There's not need to talk : all biographers of Tchaikovsky and curators of his archives published his full letters without omission, it's entirely available both on internet and in every library containing books on Tchaikovsky. Your behaviour is childish and discredit yourself in a very funny way. ^^

    he wrote history fiction books having nothing to do with reality.[/QUOTE]

    He wrote all sort of books, history fiction of course but a factual book on Tchaikovsky's life dealing very reluctantly with his homosexuality too, because the guy was rather homophobe but forced to be factual : he was not a troll from internet.

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by AeolianStrains View Post
    Probably gets paid a pittance by Putin.
    With such a Pravda name, Zhdanov, I wouldn't be surprised. Vladimir Volkoff was the great nephew of Tchaikovsky and religiously a rather reactionnary orthodox. He wrote in his biographical book about his relative that he was forced to deal "without pleasure" with his homosexuality.
    Last edited by mmsbls; Apr-20-2019 at 22:46. Reason: Removed inappropriate comment

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  7. #95
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    That's right, with pleasure or not, people have to be honest with fact and not indulge themselve in unconstructive and useless trollng.
    I tend to feel disgusted with the constant use of "troll" on this and other threads. Although I don't agree with any of what Zhdanov has posted on the thread, he is not trolling.

  8. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    I tend to feel disgusted with the constant use of "troll" on this and other threads. Although I don't agree with any of what Zhdanov has posted on the thread, he is not trolling.
    I don't agree : he makes constantly false and clearly unconstructive statements instead of study the facts carefully. Isn't it trolling to repeat constantly : "where are the letters, nobody have seen the letters, I haven't see the letters, show me the letters" ? This is his only "contribution". That and to suggest that as Volkoff wrote historic fiction, he couldn't have written a biographical book on Tchaikovsky or personnal memoirs as well, or theatre although he actually do... No, sorry, the use of that word is in that case perfectly justified.
    Last edited by Lucas; Apr-19-2019 at 09:35.

  9. #97
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    Or to claim flippantly that nobody talked about his homosexuality in his days although at the contrary anybody can read, among other things in that book that Tchaikovsky's homosexuality was clearly a subject of discussion in artistic and mundane circles as show letters from Nina Grieg to Brodsky : https://books.google.fr/books?id=aQ1...ngland&f=false That is trolling, that and not to take into consideration that all biographers have clearly documentated that Tchaikovsky's was homosexual.
    Last edited by Lucas; Apr-19-2019 at 09:37.

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    Senior Member EddieRUKiddingVarese's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ilyich_Tchaikovsky
    Despite his many popular successes, Tchaikovsky's life was punctuated by personal crises and depression. Contributory factors included his early separation from his mother for boarding school followed by his mother's early death, the death of his close friend and colleague Nikolai Rubinstein, and the collapse of the one enduring relationship of his adult life, which was his 13-year association with the wealthy widow Nadezhda von Meck who was his patron even though they never actually met each other. His homosexuality, which he kept private, has traditionally also been considered a major factor, though some musicologists now downplay its importance. Tchaikovsky's sudden death at the age of 53 is generally ascribed to cholera; there is an ongoing debate as to whether cholera was indeed the cause of death, and whether his death was accidental or self-inflicted.
    "Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"

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  12. #99
    Senior Member Bulldog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    I don't agree : he makes constantly false and clearly unconstructive statements instead of study the facts carefully. Isn't it trolling to repeat constantly : "where are the letters, nobody have seen the letters, I haven't see the letters, show me the letters" ? This is his only "contribution". That and to suggest that as Volkoff wrote historic fiction, he couldn't have written a biographical book on Tchaikovsky or personnal memoirs, as well or theatre although he actually do... No, sorry, the use of that word is in that case perfectly justified.
    I've noticed that everyone who uses the word thinks it justified.

  13. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    I've noticed that everyone who uses the word thinks it justified.
    I explained why it is justified in that case.
    Last edited by Lucas; Apr-19-2019 at 09:33.

  14. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    I've noticed that everyone who uses the word thinks it justified.
    Just saying it isn't justified while someone went out of their way to explain exactly why it is justified sounds like trolling to me.

    Kidding, of course, but I'm with Lucas. This isn't part of a constructive discourse. It's someone who's just denying things for the sake of it, just trying to stir the pot a bit.
    Last edited by AeolianStrains; Apr-19-2019 at 03:29.

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  16. #102
    Senior Member EdwardBast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    none of them have.

    care to show them to me?

    when and who? names?
    Nice try Zhdanov. You and I had this exact discussion a year or two ago and you read quotes I posted from Tchaikovsky's letters and diaries proving numerous affairs with men — waiters, drozhsky drivers, bathroom attendants, young military officers, at least one anonymous black man in the park for money — They can all be found published in Poznansky's biography of the composer. Anyone who wants to dig up that Tchaikovsky thread, from the main discussion forum(?) — I think the subject was his supposed suicide — please have at it. Or just look in the index of Poznansky under homosexuality.

    Zhdanov, you know Lucas is right. You've read the evidence. So stop playing games.
    Last edited by EdwardBast; Apr-20-2019 at 01:47.

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  18. #103
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdwardBast View Post
    I posted from Tchaikovsky's letters and diaries
    what you posted was fake, you presented no photos of his purported writings but merely someone's account of reading these.

  19. #104
    Senior Member Zhdanov's Avatar
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    taking someone's word on the man being a gay is like believing those stories on alien abduction.
    Last edited by Zhdanov; Apr-20-2019 at 07:09.

  20. #105
    Senior Member KenOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhdanov View Post
    taking someone's word on the man being a gay is like believing those stories on alien abduction.
    Do you reallty believe WWII occurred? I mean, did you see it personally? Or are there just some fake newspaper accounts...


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